Five Wide Fullbacks: Recruiting and National Signing Day
With the emotional roller coaster that was National Signing Day all of 48 hours in the past, let's take one last look back at some of the things that transpired in our most recent recruiting cycle.
In the words of the manbeast commonly referred to as Kapron Lewis-Moore Lehhhhhgooooo....
1. Gunner Kiel flipped from LSU to Notre Dame at the last possible minute to get on campus as an early enrollee. Interestingly he met a seemingly lukewarm reception from the Irish faithful. According to Rivals, Scout, 247 and MaxPreps Kiel is the #1 QB in the country and played in a similar spread system in High School. Why the lack of excitement?
I'll openly admit that I'm guilty of being in the lukewarm camp, and honestly it has nothing to do with Kiel himself. It simply has to do with the current state of the quarterback position at Notre Dame. Clear cut starting quarterbacks that take care of the football make the fan base sleep good at night. In a perfect world you get one of those every couple of years, and mix in one or two permanent red hatters in between. That scenario gives you that solid QB 1, an equally capable youngster waiting in the wings, and a couple of break glass in case of emergency dudes. With said model you can save your worries for something else.
But we don't have that model. We have an incumbent starter that turned the ball over a lot and has some noted limitations. We also have Goldrix waiting to step up and take over with no/ limited experience. And now on top of that we have Kiel who BK says will get meaningful reps in the spring. The last time we went into fall camp with an "open competition" at QB featuring a handful of relatively youthful options 2007 happened. This scenario make us very, very uncomfortable. FOUR QBs competing in the spring! Sell that business somewhere else buddy, we need to make a run and get this train back on the tracks with some momentum! You can't do that with four quarterbacks!
In the short term Kiel just further complicates an already controversial and somewhat scary situation at the most critical position on the field. Hence the meh reception.
2. On the opposite side of the coin Deontay Greenberry had a last minute change of heart and left ND high and dry on NSD in favor of ummmm........ Houston???? Within seconds the internet almost caught on fire. Is the loss of Greenberry THAT big?
Yes and no. Convenient right? Let's examine both viewpoints.
Initial disclaimer- I am well aware of the "differences" between the two scenarios. No need to rehash them in the comments. Now where was I?
Yes- For starters this class wasn't ever going to be big in terms of numbers and receiver was a big priority with Michael Floyd outbound. Greenberry was our top recruit at the position and a kid that looked like he might contribute right away. Here at OFD we had him collectively ranked right at the top of the class with Kiel. So yeah, from a pure talent and numbers standpoint he's definitely a loss.
No- We still have John Goodman people! Kidding, but does one player a program make? We all know the answer to that one. Not to mention that a few current players now have an opportunity to step up and may very well do so. Michael Floyd himself told Murtaugh on Wednesday not to sleep on Goody and Daniel Smith. Toss in TJ Jones, Toma, and a couple of these other young guys and collectively we should be just fine at the receiver position. I'm more concerned about who is going to be throwing to them.
Here's why I really think this hurt so much. One the way he did it at the 11th hour with no warning obviously lends itself to some outrage. That's fair. But really and truly it was just one last swift kick in the junk for a fan base that hung in there through some really painful losses this season to include the bowl game. NSD has the ability to bring with it hope for a better tomorrow and we were all really hoping that it would. This class was never going to wow us but Greenberry flipping to Houston just turned NSD into one last emotional sucker punch for all of us. Those tend to sting. A lot.
With that, best of luck in Cougartown DG. We'll be keeping an eye on how that works out for you.
3. Now that the class of 12' is in the books what position group do you see as the biggest need for 2013?
Seriously? FULLBACKS!!!! We have zero and need at least 8 on the roster for crying out loud! I don't know why everyone is so upset about Greenberry. This is the real travesty in the most recent recruiting cycle.
4. Do some quick research and give us the #1 prospect for 2013 that you want to come to Notre Dame.
I'll go with 6'6" 240lb Pickerington OH Defensive End/ Outside Linebacker prospect Taco Charlton. No further explanation required.
5. What was the most interesting and or entertaining recruiting story this year that had zero to do with Notre Dame?
I have to go with 5 star Geismar, Louisiana safety Landon Collins vs. his Mom. File that one in the realm of the bizarre. I was watching the UA game live when he committed to Bama only to have his Mom instantly roll in hot and say "I feel like LSU is a better place for him to be." "LSU Tigers, number one. Geaux Tigers." Just a little awkward right? She didn't let it go though. She even went so far as to give an interview to momsteam.com in which she claims that Nick Saban offered her son's girlfriend a job in Nick Saban's office. At least he didn't ask Collins to grayshirt. Yet.
An honorable mention for #5 is Defensive Line Coach Tosh Lupoi leaving Cal for Washington and taking all of Cal's top recruits with him. Ohhhhhhh recruiting.
What do you think?
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I was like 50-50 on Kiel wheather I wanted him or not.
Since he committed I looked at the QB situation and thought that we only have two that I trust, Hendrix and Golson, and they have yet to prove anything on the field. Another thought was if either of those guys get hurt it would be nice to have Kiel ready to step in as back up, which most likely wouldnt happen because the staff would want to keep his redshirt year. Rees could be a capable backup if needed.
Losing Greenberry hurt and having his coach call to tell the Irish that he has flipped to Houston was a pretty low way of doing it…couldnt be a man and do it himself…..that shows me a lack of character. We have 2 excellent WR’s signed in this class, not 5* but excellent…..star’s are like IQ….doesnt matter how many you have or how high the IQ number…it still has to be developed.
For 2013 the biggest need to me is OL, we need at least 5, minimum 4 and more CB’s.
Havent even looked at any possible 2013 targets yet but I’m going to say any elite OL would be my choice.
The craziest thing for me about a recruit this year is the same as yours. I thought that was the wildest thing I ever saw. Usually a kid gets all kinds of hugs and kisses not his mom doing the rival bit.
I like your take on 1 & 2 there Bill.
Also totally agree on the OL and CBs for this cycle.
whiskey
www.onefootdown.com
We've already got one elite OL commit
if this Elmer kid from Michigan pans out.
We have a verbal from an elite OL
Last year we had Darby Decker and Greenberry very early. Now we’re short at CB, OL and WR.
Not saying I don’t tihnk he’ll still be here 12 months from now, I’m just pointing out recruting is a fickle game.
Elmer is solid
He was tweeting glowing remarks about ND when he visited for the USC game.
Then again, 17 to 18 year olds…
One Foot Down
On teh Twitterz
There was a time when everyone felt Decker was solid...
Go back to the BGI or ISD article in March when Decker committed…sounds just like Elmer. You just can’t call anything a lock when it comes to recruits. I hope Elmer is more like Harrell than Decker.
no 18 year old at this stage is solid
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Feb 4, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with you on this...
but Elmer’s dad is a poster on one of the paid sites. They have spent a lot of time visiting other schools just to make sure that Steve had no doubts with his choice. They have been to ND many times and are going back again soon for a hockey game and to meet Coach Hiestand. Even said Steve would be applying there with or without football and that they will find a way to pay for their younger kids to go to ND. The family, really led by Steve in the process, just loves ND.
hope you are right, but I stand by my original statement
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Feb 7, 2012 8:52 AM EST up reply actions
You're right, of course
What I should have said for the sake of clarity was “We’ve already got one verbal commit from”. But it’s a start.
For 2013...
I would say Ty Isaac or Laquon Treadwell but I don’t place a premium on skill guys like I do the big guys. I’ll take two on either side of the ball (based on current offers). Ethan Pocic (OL- Illinois) is an absolute monster and looks to be tremendously athletic; his mechanics and ability to stay low and get leverage are better than Kyle Bosch (another OL from Illinois, longtime ND fan, I expect him to be Irish) at this point. Hell, I’ll take both.
On the defensive side, Jaylon Smith (OLB out of Fort Wayne) is a star. What an athlete, good lord. He may not be an academic fit (being polite) and would require outrecruiting Urban Meyer for him (which I would love). DT Henri Poggi has the nasty and the frame to play all 3 DL spots. I’m not sure how successful ND has been in Maryland, but he is a great fit (thus the early offer).
Just some guys that stick out to me.
i want me some
vernon hargreaves the third and robert foster too
but i think i REALLY want su’a cravens. he’s basically like landon collins, no?
by 4pointshooter on Feb 3, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
and of course,
ty isaac and adam breneman are must gets as well
by 4pointshooter on Feb 3, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
I really wish his last name was spelled slightly differently
but I guess it sounds close enough to “charlatan” to be great.
I want the OL haul that Standord had this year.
It was absurd. I’m so jealous
by my name is inigo montoya on Feb 3, 2012 11:38 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Absurd is right
I really hope Stanford regresses to the mean now that Luck is gone, because I don’t want to have to compete with USC and Stanford both on the field and for recruits every year. Unfortunately, I don’t see that happening unless Shaw turns out to be a terrible coach.
One Foot Down
On teh Twitterz
wouldn't count on Shaw screwing up
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Feb 4, 2012 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
Whiskey, apparently you need to join me in re-education camp.
Gunner Kiel is the #1 Pro style QB! (in a down year for QB’s, with scouts openly questioning his decision making skills in the face of pressure and level of competition.)
Getting the # 1 Pro Style QB will make other recruits flip to us too! (Algholor signs with SC, Greenberry to Houston…Darby, Poole, Armstead….)
How can you not be excited? Now go write “Gunner Kiel is the #1 Pro-Style QB” 1000 times in your Little Blue & Gold Book.
I started at 221.6. I'm now 217.6. This will stay in my sig line until I am 190. Keep reminding me of this.
The Japanese History Podcast
There's nothing wrong with being excited about Kiel
Signing the #1 player at any position should be the cause of celebration.
I also understand why you and others aren’t jumping on couches over his arrival – Golson is an exciting prospect and creating more uncertainty at the position is not appealing. But we have no idea how good he is. Kiel is, if anything, another backup plan (along with Hendrix) to the QB situation.
So I’m excited to see him at ND. I think Golson will ultimately win the QB job, but I can’t wait to see Kiel in the spring game. In an ideal world, Golson is the incumbent starter with maybe only one or two years of eligibility left, and Kiel takes a redshirt and takes over in a few years. But that’s not where we are, so we just have to wait and see how everything shakes out.
One Foot Down
On teh Twitterz
People have a right to be excited about Kiel.
I equally have a right to be cautious and not be jumping for joy. I recognize the right of others to have a differing opinion. I thank you for recognizing it as well.
I started at 221.6. I'm now 217.6. This will stay in my sig line until I am 190. Keep reminding me of this.
The Japanese History Podcast
by Kelly's Gyros on Feb 4, 2012 1:51 AM EST up reply actions
Bottom line for me
QB play was unquestionably the weakest link this season, and Kelly went out and did something about it. Golson wasn’t redshirted for the sake of saving eligibility alone. Enough true freshman saw the field this season to show Kelly isn’t afraid to play anyone if they are the best option. And let’s not forget how high everyone was on Hendrix until he threw that atrocious pick in the bowl game. We all can afford to have qb ADHD, but Kelly has to think long term. Not going out and getting a potentially better option would be betting his job on two guys who have little to no experience. Put the best guy in and let the chips fall where they may. If someone has hurt feelings, then he can feel free to transfer. Kelly told them going in he was going to take a qb every year, after all.
by RocketScience on Feb 4, 2012 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
well said
the idea that landing Kiel would mess up the plans to get a QB ready is a little bizarre. The idea is to recruit the best players and clearly Kiel was the best QB this cycle.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Feb 7, 2012 8:54 AM EST up reply actions
A question for the masses:
How would everyone feel if Kiel emerges as the starting quarterback in the fall? Excited? Disappointed Golson couldn’t win the job? “I don’t care as along as he doesn’t throw picks in the endzone”?
One Foot Down
On teh Twitterz
Honestly?
Hopefully optimistic.
I have nothing against Kiel. I have everything against dicking around with 4 or 3 QB’s. If he’s clearly head and shoulders above everyone else, then name him the starter as soon as that’s apparent and let’s go. If he’s not? Redshirt him, don’t take away reps from Golson, who needs them. Or Hendrix, I suppose. But there better be 1 QB coming out of spring, or I’m not going to be happy at all.
I started at 221.6. I'm now 217.6. This will stay in my sig line until I am 190. Keep reminding me of this.
The Japanese History Podcast
by Kelly's Gyros on Feb 4, 2012 1:49 AM EST up reply actions
I will be really disappointed.
Im such a big fan of Golson. IDC if its based off his HS highlights, or the spring game. The kids got skills and I want him to have the starting job. But its not like im going to root against Kiel..Whoever plays best deserves that job, and I wish them to go undefeated.
I understand everyone's love for Golson.
He really has the potential to be an amazing player for us. But when it gets to the point that we can’t take/don’t want any more quarterbacks because we don’t want to give him too much competition (and admittedly, fewer reps which is a legitimate concern) then I think it gets a little ridiculous.
by my name is inigo montoya on Feb 3, 2012 4:36 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
And here we go.
I should have just read further and kept my silence.
I started at 221.6. I'm now 217.6. This will stay in my sig line until I am 190. Keep reminding me of this.
The Japanese History Podcast
by Kelly's Gyros on Feb 4, 2012 1:52 AM EST up reply actions
the argument that the Kiel signing brings more problems than benefits is a very strange one indeed.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Feb 5, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Very true.
I’m really just concerned about not being able to determine a clear #1 and playing musical QBs all year.
whiskey
www.onefootdown.com
I've always thought it was like this....
Our back up QB will be the favorite of the masses, when the starter plays like a back up.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 4, 2012 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
My answers
1. Kiel-excitement? For two reasons – the negative always hits harder than the positive. And recruiting is a ‘what has happened lately’ kind of business. We have 16 very good players we brought in but because of late defections and the spreading around of the commits over a year, it just feels like a bummer.
2. Greenberry? It’s a disappointment but with Brown, Ferguson, and Russell, not a HUGE loss. But we don’t have the benefit of foresight to know for sure. If we remedy the QB problem, I think we’ll be fine with our roster of WRs honestly (not sleeping on EG – have been to some support meetings and they’re helping).
3. Needs for 2012-3? 4-5 O-linemen, 2 DEs, 1 TE, and 2 elite corners, not necessarily in that order. Other needs as well that we’ll delve into later I’m sure.
4. 2013 prospect? Elmer is a beast and hope he sticks but I’ll go with Su’a Cravens. Could be Shaq Thompson part 2 and a big playmaker from California to go with Tee.
5. Most Interesting recruiting story? Jordan Payton’s recruitment… 4 different commitments?
3. (as is now my tradition of answering #3 twice)
Glad to hear you're getting the help you need.
3. What about a nose guard cloned from the spliced DNA’s of Louis Nix III and Vince Wilfork? I don’t think we’ve gotten a true nose in this class or the previous class.
3. I couldn’t agree more.
by Mouth of the South on Feb 4, 2012 10:33 AM EST up reply actions

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