The Unofficial Guide to Rebuilding Notre Dame: Part Two
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 21, 2012 7:00 AM EST
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PrintThis is the second of a four-part series focusing on rebuilding and winning at Notre Dame today and for the future.
For part one, click here.
"This series of articles is not an excuse for failure, an apology for Brian Kelly's first two seasons, nor a prediction for major success in the coming years at Notre Dame, but rather testimony that honest and patient rebuilding can lead to a restoration of winning in South Bend."
Is Brian Kelly Rebuilding?
Looking back at the tenures of Bob Davie, Tyrone Willingham, and Charlie Weis it's easy to say that they failed, underperformed, and were not able to rebuild the dynasty that is Irish football. If you're willing to admit that much (and I'm pretty sure everyone is) then you should be able to admit that Notre Dame needs to be rebuilt.
So, is Brian Kelly actually rebuilding Notre Dame?
Kelly is rebuilding and doing pretty well so far, but has plenty of room for improvement. He's targeted the team's major weakness (defense) and improved that unit rather remarkably, he's preached mental toughness and made some inroads there, his message (along with the rest of the staff) has been consistent, and the fundamentals in most areas have been much-improved.
Kelly has also brought a new sense of personal responsibility upon the players, demanded more from them in terms of attention to details both on and off the field, while also reorganizing the players' routines and stressing how important the strength and conditioning program is.
Kelly's experience and closeness with strength and conditioning coach Paul Longo alone has been a major part to literally physically rebuilding the players and making sure they are full of energy and strength late in games and throughout a full season.
In short, the amount of improving fundamental issues so vital to rebuilding have been patently obvious for those who wish to see it. Winning more football games is the final and most important piece to the puzzle, but the rebuilding elsewhere has definitely started to take root.
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Keys to Rebuilding: Avoid Losing Seasons
It's emphasized in this Unofficial Guide to Rebuilding Notre Dame far enough. A Fighting Irish program that can go 5 years, 7 years, or even a decade without a losing season will be a much stronger program---even if there aren't any BCS bowl games in there.
Forget about the empty Return to Glory™ dreams and a fast-track to major bowl victories and championships within a three-year period---think about the wonders it could do for Notre Dame when her enemies can no longer point to the Golden Dome every other year and say, "Look how far away they are from playing top-level football."
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Thus, Kelly's rebuilding efforts should buy more patience from fans---not forever of course---but at this point in time there shouldn't be a coaching search underway because Notre Dame isn't lining up for a BCS bowl bid. Not when the line play has been drastically improved, the running game made big strides for the first time in a decade, the defense continued playing at a high level, and the Irish finished 2011 inside the top 15 in Football Outsider's FEI, S&P, and F/+ national rankings.
If you're not wrapped up in the belief that Brian Kelly needs to win 10 games in 2012 to save his job or that at the end of year three we'll know all we need to know about him, you will find that there have been a lot of positive trends happening in South Bend.
We'll have to see how the next couple seasons play out, but Kelly sits fairly comfortably with the way he's improved Notre Dame so far since 2010.
How Long Should Kelly Be Allowed to Rebuild?
Ah, the million-dollar question.
First, let me pose another question: What if Brian Kelly wins 8 or 9 games---no more, no less---for the next four seasons?
Is that unacceptable? Would six full seasons without double-digit victories mean Notre Dame is truly satisfied with mediocrity? Is that really mediocrity given Notre Dame's recent past in the internet age?
Will Paul Longo be a key component to rebuilding Notre Dame?
Kelly is going to get 5 years minimum and until there's a stinker of a season or obvious lack of development or crumbling of the rebuilding effort, the heat should be relatively low. We know that might not be the case, but that should be the reality for a program with so many .500 and below seasons since the end of the Holtz era.
Essentially what we're talking about with allowing Kelly to rebuild is the gray area involving 7 to 9 wins a season. Any seasons below or above that gray area and Kelly's future becomes much clearer.
But within that gray area, there should be much more patience and a willingness to forsake starting all over again with a new coach after 4 or 5 years versus allowing Notre Dame to build a foundation and identity through long-term stability.
If Brian Kelly does not end a season with 6 or fewer wins, the main goal should be to continue under his leadership to the point where Notre Dame is a stable program, free from disaster, and much more attractive to a new and more proven coach who may be able to get the Irish over the hump.
Everyone wants an elite coach in South Bend, but it's not as simple as calling up Bob Stoops and throwing the bank at him. We can go round and round with the circular argument that the administration doesn't care, and that's why an elite coach won't come to Notre Dame---or also that an elite coach won't come to Notre Dame because the administration has hired bad coaches in the past and simply can't or won't hire the best coaches today.
When you set the bar at "hire an elite coach or it's a failure" or "you have three years to prove you're an elite coach" you're fundamentally misunderstanding how to rebuild and only digging a deeper hole for Notre Dame.
With the historical arc the Irish program has been on since Holtz left, the answer is not likely (at least initially) going to come from an elite coach (Stoops, Meyer, Saban, etc.) because those leaders will not come to Notre Dame with its track record of instability and impediments to quick success.
More than likely, the path to success will come from hiring a coach with a very good track record who comes to Notre Dame and raises the winning percentage, stops the bleeding of losing seasons every other year, and stabilizes the program to where it is attractive to the nation's best leaders.
Brian Kelly may be that coach.
The Power of Not Sucking
Irish fans love talking about mediocrity. The three levels in football (according to some) are domination, mediocrity, and sucking. Hence, why you see back-to-back 8-5 seasons described as utterly mediocre.
However, one of the major steps that needs to take place in a real rebuilding effort is eliminating the .500 or below seasons---in other words, removing the country's ability to point to a season at Notre Dame and say, "The Irish are falling apart yet again!"
Not only is a bottoming out once or twice a sign of bad coaching, it also reverses any momentum and rebuilding efforts that might have been undertaken. Right now, avoiding this bottoming out is much more important than reaching the upper-echelon of college football.
Today, fans should be tentatively pleased that there hasn't been a bottoming out under Kelly, but still some can't accept this and continue to persist that year three will define his coaching career in South Bend.
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Keys to Rebuilding: Develop the Quarterback Position
This one is so obvious, especially in the immediate future of the program. Given Kelly's history, you have to like his odds at figuring out the quarterback battle over the next few seasons, but it's still a problem that needs to be addressed.
Kelly would also be wise to take the handcuffs off and run his offense the way in which he is comfortable---at full speed and without much hesitation.
He's deliberately turned away from a more explosive offense that takes it to the opponent in favor of a more ball-control oriented offense intent on slowing things down and focusing on the details in light of Notre Dame's strong line play and tough defense. However, Kelly might want to re-visit this decision and go all in with his "normal" offense.
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What's interesting is that there's this great fear of Notre Dame sinking into mediocrity, passing each year with 8-5 type seasons, with recruiting falling apart as the university gladly rakes in the millions in revenue.
In the 11 seasons from 1999 to 2009, Notre Dame had 6 campaigns end at or below .500, yet somehow we're supposed to think 8-5 is "sinking" into mediocrity? 8-5 is a statistical improvement---yet leave it to some fans to say that improvement isn't good enough at Notre Dame.
The thing is, the Irish have suffered 9 seasons (when you count the years in which the Irish were one game over .500) since the mid-90's that were sub-par for most programs' standards, yet here the Irish are still standing with great facilities and a talented roster. Oh, how things could be so much worse.
Willingham was the first college football coach to be Sporting News' Sportsman of the Year---he was fired less than two years later.
I fail to see how stringing together a bunch of 8-5 seasons, and boosting the programs winning percentage along the way, would be a disaster and ruin Notre Dame's recruiting---not when we've just witnessed 15+ years of worse football and still with the roster talent far outweighing the team's results during that period.
Of course, one could argue that multiple seasons without a Return to Glory™ campaign thrown in periodically would hurt the program, but at the same time, we've never seen the effect of a stable Notre Dame in modern times without losing seasons littered all over the place.
This point can't be hammered home enough: When Notre Dame stops having poor seasons nearly every other season, then the program will finally be on the road to recovery. This has to happen to make the Irish head coaching job one worth an putting an elite leaders reputation on the line---it's not going to happen simply because "Notre Dame is Notre Dame" and there's all this history and tradition to look back on.
Coming up in part three:
Notre Dame as an Attractive Job Destination
Changing Expectations to Aid Rebuilding
What Role is University Leadership Playing?
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Thanks, Eric - a very good discussion, once again.
I have a question for you: in this piece and the first one in this series, you mention ND or CFB in “the internet age” or the “era of the internet,” and I was wondering whether this is simply shorthand for you for the contemporary period in CFB (the last 15-20 years, roughly the same as the “post-Lou Holtz period” for ND), or whether you mean to suggest some particular impact that the internet has had on CFB programs and the CFB landscape more generally (e.g., in recruiting, media coverage, fan engagement, etc.). Are you suggesting that the impact of digital media and the internet is a crucial part of how we think about ND evolving in the CFB landscape?
#figureitoutbobby
Just a way to label the post-Holtz era
If it ain't 2,000 words long, I ain't posting it.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 21, 2012 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
Although your quote
Are you suggesting that the impact of digital media and the internet is a crucial part of how we think about ND evolving in the CFB landscape?
That is an intriguing topic for sure. You could make the argument that ND needs to utilize digital media and new technology to broaden its reach across the world. I think they’re doing a really good job lately with this, and this is actually kind of one of my Keys to Rebuilding.
As far as the football team directly, we’ll see how they plan on using NBC Sports and trying to get more content out there for us consumers.
That’s a fun topic.
If it ain't 2,000 words long, I ain't posting it.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 21, 2012 9:41 AM EST up reply actions
I think the internet age has another effect:
It allows exactly the sort of complaining and malcontent that you are talking about to blossom and color the public’s view of ND. The more you have sites like that which will not be named ahemNDNahem, the more chance the pressure and negative attitudes have to reach potential recruits, current players, etc. Of course, on the flip side, it allows forums like this one to exist. But I think for many, many people, it is just so much easier (and maybe if you’ve got some mental problems, more fun) to pile on the criticism and act as couch-potato coachs/ADs.
Certainly you are right
If it ain't 2,000 words long, I ain't posting it.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 21, 2012 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
The other effect of technology is less about social media and more about an increase in information
10 years ago, how many kids from California or Arizona knew anything about Houston or Central Florida or Rutgers football? You saw the few games that were broadcast regularly (ND among them, every week), and if you were lucky, some of the local schools. ESPN was a fledgling site with remedial coverage, and places like sbnation didn’t exist to get coverage of any team you wanted. By the same token, HS coverage isn’t what it once was and coaches had to rely on word of mouth and a monster network of HS coaches and acquaintances to learn about the best players around. TV deals weren’t nearly as lucrative and budgets were significantly smaller than they are now.
Fast forward 15 years. Any kid from any part of the country (say, maybe, the Midwest), can see and follow any school they want. 90% of the games are on tv in some form or another (so Mom + Dad can watch from home). TV money is now distributed to all but the absolute bottom feeder teams. Budgets are up, and facilities are nicer in every school across the country. Technology has changed the game, making some of the advantages ND used to have null and void. It’s not to say that we can’t regain advantages by leverging NBCSports for more consistent contact with the program or utilizing online options better, but we have to be innovative with it so as not to get passed by. It’s a different world and things are changing as fast as ever.
Looking forward to part 3...
everything you said here should be logical to any rational human being, but sports fans are not so. ND can be elite yearly, but they cannot turn it around as quickly as other programs. That’s just reality. They can’t oversign. They have to eliminate over half of the top recruits right off the bat. They don’t have the same cache they once had. They play a very uniquely difficult schedule every year. They operate under an intense microscope that other schools simply don’t, regardless of how big they are in CFB. It’s just a different story.
I don’t care how quickly Saban turned around Alabama or Meyer turned around Florida or Stoops turned around Oklahoma. It’s not even close to the same thing. Kelly should get his run of the place for a decade. What’s he going to do, leave it worse than Weis or Willingham? He’s good. He’s got “it”. He handles more bs than most of us could even fathom and he handles it with the skill of a polished politician. So he makes football mistakes. So do Saban and Miles and Meyer and Stoops and Holtz and Ara and Rockne and literally everyone else. He shouldn’t have a “hot seat” every time something goes wrong. Chill out, ND fans. ND has sucked for a while. Pick a coach and stand by him or it will never not suck again.
by alstein on Feb 21, 2012 9:21 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
It's funny
I really wanted to talk about how fans complain about a coach’s playcalling, especially the ones who put it at the top of the list as his biggest negative. But then I would have had to add another 1,500 words.
I just think that’s so unbelievably silly.
It’s one of those things that I always chuckle when I read. People get so upset at one, two, or three play calls over an entire year—-or even multiple years.
If it ain't 2,000 words long, I ain't posting it.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 21, 2012 9:49 AM EST up reply actions
Yea all the Madden players that think they know how to call plays...
and it generally devolves into “They should have blitzed more!!!” or “They should have run/passed more!!!”. It’s annoyingly ignorant.
To add another point
I’m not saying it’s not worth questioning a coach’s playcalling, but doing it at such a micro level and then using that as an argument that a coach sucks.
For example Kelly deserves plenty of criticism for handling the QB position, the offense as a whole, and how he called some games.
But that’s different than, “Kelly called that dumb play, and we lost the game because of it, and he’ll never be a good coach.”
My favorite from this past year was the hook and ladder against BC. Perfectly executed, good call seeing as how we weren’t doing much on offense anyway——but the beast Kuechly sniffed it out for a two yard loss.
People were SO angry with that play——like we lost the national title or something.
If it ain't 2,000 words long, I ain't posting it.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 21, 2012 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
I've always been a fan of Kelly's playcalling
I thought he and the coaches did a nice job of coming up with offensive gameplans (for the most part) and making in-game adjustments this past season.
One Foot Down
On teh Twitterz
I agree with this point whole heartedly
The big key is not to get to micro on the playcalling aspects. On a micro-level, each coach makes bad play calls, but some work out great. Each coach makes good play calls that end poorly. The difference is how the players execute those plays. Les Miles was brilliant at pushing the right buttons until he wasn’t in the national title game. Oregon’s offense is brilliant until someone stops it.
On the other hand, the macro level of playcalling does occasionally bother me. My frustrating with last year was the lack of protecting our young QB with limited game exp. It felt like there were many times where Kelly just threw Rees out there and said go chuck it around. To steal from yesterdays referencing of Mike Valenit, “[Jonas Grey] was a bowling ball [against Pitt]. They wanted no part of him.” He touched the ball 3 times. Instead, we were hucking it into coverage and throwing picks. I don’t argue with any one call, and I’m not going to blindly say “run more!” but there has to be a way to assist our young QB by utilizing other parts of our game better. If we have a QB like a 3rd/4th year Quinn or a 3rd year Clausen, by all means, huck it all over the field. But not with Tommy Rees, after what Rees proved this year.
Every comment should reference the Mike Valenti rant in some form
And you did so deftly here. Cheers, sirrah.
by The Guys Get Shirts! on Feb 21, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
scenario to ponder
I am just wondering if you folks would indulge me for a second. I think we can, for the most part, probably agree that QB play and the overall handling of that situation had a substantial impact on ND being 8-5, not something better like 10-3. If the QB situation had been more stable and manageable (i.e. we had a steady starter who was effective but not a star), but Manti and Harrison Smith went down with season ending injuries early on, leading us to go 8-5, would there be so much angst among the fan base about whether Kelly is “the guy” and whether he is effectively building a program? I am someone who was downright giddy when we hired Kelly out of Cinci, but after watching him yank Crist after a half, stick with Rees all season, and inexplicably not get Hendrix more experience, I am someone now who is more in the “I don’t know what to think” camp. That is to say I feel like much of the fan base is pretty myopic about consecutive 8-5 seasons because many of us perceive 2011 season to have been a large disappointment, most attributable to Kelly’s mismanagement and (what many of us see as) odd/illogical loyalty to Rees. I realize that is probably not entirely fair (who knows how we would have done with Crist… or how many games we win [6, 7?] if Hendrix takes over mid season), but I do think it contributes to the overall malaise. It is not just that we went 8-5.
I think you are spot on
Plus, Kelly had gone a long time improving his team’s records from year to year. Added to the frustration was that we had a ton of players coming back in 2011 as well.
If it ain't 2,000 words long, I ain't posting it.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 21, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Ya, there were a few mistakes this year, in an area which basically got Kelly the ND job in the first place
Kelly has been great at developing QBs in the past. He failed at it last year. Could be a fluke (hopeless players) or could be a trend, we won’t know until this year.
But combine it with the fact that 2012 is built for a “free pass” year because of the schedule and graduations, we get faced with the prospect of waiting until 2013 to learn if things ARE actually getting better. I’m sure that adds to the angst.
I think you've got it right, as well.
Part of the “malaise” that we can tie to the mishandling of the QB situation is worry over the very large number of TOs by the Irish this year, since so very many of them were the QB’s responsibility. Better execution by a competent, talented QB with good support would have gone a long way to alleviate all the worries over turnovers and, to add to that pile, red zone efficiency.
These are the key things (QB play, TOs, red zone play) that not only made 2011’s 8-5 seem particularly disappointing but worse than last year’s 8-5, even in the face of all of the clear evidence of improvement in important facets of the team.
#figureitoutbobby
by fishoutofwater on Feb 21, 2012 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Davonte Neal a no show at grade school
There seems to be no decision on Davonte,s decision. He was a no show at AZ grade school. They cut TV coverage
Davont Neal
Will be a PR backlash lettin down the kids. davonte’s dad is pushing ND and Davonte wants to stay home according to TV coverage
The guys on that broadcast had no idea what they were talking about...
completely unfair. That said, this is gonna stay with Davonte until he produces at the next level. I still hope it’s with ND.
Kids in the Xylophone band at the school were terriffic
ND’s marching band should begin recruiting those musicians immediately
by Marty Healy on Feb 21, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
CFB recruiting baby
If it ain't 2,000 words long, I ain't posting it.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 21, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
Excellent choice!
whiskey
www.onefootdown.com
by whiskey OFD on Feb 21, 2012 2:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Looks like the kid doesn't want to be at ND.
If he doesn’t want to be there, doesn’t matter how hard Daddy pushes him. He’ll leave. Better off just letting him go to Arizona, we don’t face them. Kids who delay their announcements and then create this sort of drama (Terrelle Pryor, anyone? Seantrell Henderson?) are usually kids you don’t really want. That’s not entirely fair to Davonte, and I have no idea what’s going on anymore than the next guy, but if he doesn’t want to be at ND, his father pushing him to ND isn’t going to be any better for us.
I started at 221.6. I'm now 209.6. This will stay in my sig line until I am 190. Keep reminding me of this.
The Japanese History Podcast
by Kelly's Gyros on Feb 21, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
I'm with you
Kid shouldn’t be pushed to be somewhere he doesn’t want to be. That tends to work out less than optimally for everyone involved. If he comes to ND, it should be because he feels that ND is a special place. If it’s not a special place for him, that’s OK too. Give him joy of wherever he chooses.
by The Guys Get Shirts! on Feb 21, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
I won't disagree with you guys
Neal is now back at the school ready to announce and is apologizing to each class room.
I still want him to pick ND.
WE CAN WORK IT OUT
If it ain't 2,000 words long, I ain't posting it.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 21, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
What the heck did I miss today?!?!?
Well hello there hangover. Fancy meeting you here this bright Thursday morning.
by Cranked_Irish on Feb 21, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
Once again, rec'd the whole post. Great stuff, Eric.
I started at 221.6. I'm now 209.6. This will stay in my sig line until I am 190. Keep reminding me of this.
The Japanese History Podcast
I give up.
Nobody said they didn’t want him. If he doesn’t want to be at ND, and is pushed there by Daddy, which a several hour delay of the specially called press conference and delay after signing day indicates, then there are indications that it’s not really where his heart is. I want Neal—I also want him to want to be at ND. Hopefully it works out.
Criminy, I’m just going to stop writing anything ever.
I started at 221.6. I'm now 209.6. This will stay in my sig line until I am 190. Keep reminding me of this.
The Japanese History Podcast
by Kelly's Gyros on Feb 21, 2012 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
Three things...
1) He never said anything about you. LIkely just a general statement about the Internet reaction.
2) He wasn’t pushed to ND by his dad. You can believe rumors by people that don’t know, or you can believe all his quotes and actions that say otherwise.
3) Just because these kids are undecided about which school to go to doesn’t mean they don’t “want” to be at the school that might be in 2nd. They could want to go to both. I could go out for ice cream and not be sure if I should have chocolate or vanilla. I would love both. I just don’t know which one I would love more. I’m not going to pick one and then throw it out. Hell, most of these kids could go to any of 50 different schools and be perfectly happy with their experience.
Re: #2
Either way, four hours later than the announced 9:30 presser, Notre Dame received a fax from one of its most heralded prospects, a dynamic offensive threat that’ll help ease the sting of missing out on Deontay Greenberry. In a bizarre waiting game that rankled more than a few, Neal’s self-imposed press extravaganza didn’t go off as planned because of a reported family rift. Richard Obert of the Arizona Republic reported that Neal was at odds with his father Luke, with the elder wanting his son to play for the Irish, while Davonte favored staying close to home and his mother.
(From Keith at NBC)
You can believe the quotes, or you can believe the actions. Delaying for several hours the press conference he’d specifically called kind of indicates there was some familial disagreement. As I said, perhaps it works out—often in these situations, it does not.
Re: #1—I’ll address DMAC directly, thank you.
Re: #3: Do you delay your decision at the ice cream shop by 4 hours while you argue with your father about which flavor you want? No, you know why? Because you can get other flavors. You can have two at one time. You can go the next day and get another one. You can’t exactly do that with college.
I started at 221.6. I'm now 209.6. This will stay in my sig line until I am 190. Keep reminding me of this.
The Japanese History Podcast
by Kelly's Gyros on Feb 22, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
I stand by the analogy...
just insert a higher leverage decision (buying a TV, maybe?- I can’t want/like the benefits of many different TVs and be happy with any number of TVs with no intent to change even if the decision was difficult).
Those aren’t quotes from the Neals. He has done interviews since, and there were other family issues involved (as in people trying to get in his spotlight) that had nothing to do with wavering in his commitment or wanting to go somewhere other than ND.
I didnt even know you said anything about Davonte today.
Sorry to unintentionally hurt your feelings. There were just many many post on almost every board/blog saying: This kid isnt ND material. I felt that was complete bullshit (They all welcomed gunner with open arms). Not in any way was this directed at you.
My apologies.
Your post was just a few below mine. I’ve become a bit touchy since it seems that any time you express reservations about how a recruitment takes place, people come down on you for it. There’s a lot of positive about Neal, and I’d rather us have him than not have him. For HIS sake, and not for ND’s, I hope he’s made a choice he either A. is happy with or B. becomes happy with. The kid is certainly ND material.
I started at 221.6. I'm now 209.6. This will stay in my sig line until I am 190. Keep reminding me of this.
The Japanese History Podcast
by Kelly's Gyros on Feb 22, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
I kind of see where you're coming from
but generally I disagree with the things you’ve said, Eric. First, I don’t think it’s really fair to ask “Is Kelly rebuilding” and then immediately conclude “Kelly is in fact rebuilding” without discussing it. This would have been better said at the end of the post. “So, we can conclude that Kelly is rebuilding.”
To me, I don’t know how you explain the poor play on the field. If Kelly was really rebuilding (and not just coaching to win) then wouldn’t the play on the field be much more solid? Of course, I’m probably putting all of this on the quarterback.
But anyway, I don’t think the Notre Dame fan base can tolerate five seasons of nothing better or worse than 8-5. Kelly must break through to at least 10 wins in 2012, or the Irish fan base will eat him alive. If three years ago you all were giving Kelly a timeframe, most of you would say that he’d be there by year three. Obviously now it doesn’t look that way, so I need not bring up the whole hindsight is 20/20 argument.
I do agree that the priority should be to stop losing, but the fan base wants so badly to be relevant, and right now they’re not. I want Kelly to stick around. I also am of the opinion that he hasn’t been rebuilding because he coaches at Notre Dame not with the mentality that this was a project that needed fixing, but that this was the job of a lifetime that he could lose at any moment. I mean, think about it: if Notre Dame is really so talented, why has it taken so long? There are two explanations: either Notre Dame is not as talented as they think they are, or Kelly is not rebuilding.
I think you might be painting with too broad a brush when you say "poor play on the field"
The defense was very good from top to bottom (we can argue about individual players, but overall result was solid), the offensive line was excellent, and the running backs played better than we’ve seen in a long time. Quarterback play has been poor. We’ll see how this team looks when a QB steps up. (/knocks on wood)
One Foot Down
On teh Twitterz
You really miss the point...
2 years isn’t “so long”. That’s precisely the problem. That’s nothing when it comes to overturning a 20 year malaise. People that think that’s such a long time are overly dramatic and really aren’t grasping what needs to be done here. They have not played poor. They have gone 8-5 two straight years. That is not poor, pretty much by definition. Inconsistent? Sure. Disappointing at times? Of course. Poor? Hell no.
I have literally never agreed with anything you wrote, but you really exposed yourself here as precisely the problematic fan that the rational crowd truly is growing to despise. You failed to capture the thesis of Eric’s piece. You project your irrational expectations onto a nebulous, ignorant “fan base” that is really reflective of your own views. You give no rationale behind your conclusion that he is not rebuilding the program, despite evidence (and a 4 part series on OFD!) to the contrary. I truly wish you could give a dissenting opinion that was well-informed and presented well because I always value that, but you fail to every time you post.
Alstein...do you consciously try to sound arrogant in each and every post?
ease up on the reins buddy
Not every post...
but I see what you are saying. My bad, I’ll chill out.
Oh no you didn't!!!
Let’s everyone pump the brakes and remember civility. Unless you know someone well enough to really just make fun of them mercilessly.
by Mouth of the South on Feb 22, 2012 12:05 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Here's my reply to you MR
First, I don’t think it’s really fair to ask "Is Kelly rebuilding" and then immediately conclude "Kelly is in fact rebuilding" without discussing it. This would have been better said at the end of the post. "So, we can conclude that Kelly is rebuilding."
I really don’t think it mattered where in the post (or within the series) that Kelly rebuilding part went. Notions about it being “fair” as to where it went also seems a bit off.
I think I could have spent more time within that subset talking about the things that Kelly has been not doing well at Notre Dame, but at the same time, most of that stuff I don’t really put under “he’s not rebuilding category” and anyway I deal with the negatives surrounding BK throughout the whole series and in the Keys to Rebuilding.
We’ve already been down this road before. Me and others have offered a dozen pieces of important evidence of why Kelly’s rebuilding, and you either ignore it or don’t seem to believe it. That’s all fine and dandy, but you’ve never really brought any evidence to the table besides the QB situation, so….
To me, I don’t know how you explain the poor play on the field. If Kelly was really rebuilding (and not just coaching to win) then wouldn’t the play on the field be much more solid?
Is the play on the field not much more solid? A nearly 180 turn on the defense? That alone, speaks volumes to Kelly’s rebuilding efforts.
Of course, I’m probably putting all of this on the quarterback.
Fo sho.
The rest of your comment I generally agree with. Except your last couple sentences as I think they are a bit too simplistic.
But, I was waiting for you to chime in MR, thanks for doing so.
If it ain't 2,000 words long, I ain't posting it.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 21, 2012 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
Happy to do so
This is also a very good series. It’s nice to see that a portion of the Notre Dame fan base hasn’t completely turned on Kelly.
Me and others have offered a dozen pieces of important evidence of why Kelly’s rebuilding, and you either ignore it or don’t seem to believe it.
It’s more that I just don’t believe it. It’s like we’re watching two different teams. I fully respect your opinion and admire your faith in Kelly, and I have a lot of faith in him too, but as I have said many times, when I watch Notre Dame play I see a team that plays with desperation and not dominance—or at least not fantastic execution. That’s probably asking too much on my part.
I generally don’t agree with your “evidence” because it’s not really evidence at all. It’s just saying “This is how it is.” You don’t provide video clips or anything. Just the parochial “Did you even watch the game last night?!!?! It was sooo obvious!” Of course, to be fair, I do a lot of this too. And that’s because I only have time to just stop by and pass along my thoughts, hopefully contributing to the discussion. I try to provide a different point of view.
I look forward to reading the rest of the series. ;)
by Meager Reader on Feb 21, 2012 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
We may be watching two different teams then
Or maybe you didn’t watch the team from 2007 through 2009?
I don’t think this is about my faith in Kelly. Honestly, the past two years have shaken whatever faith I had in him a little bit, but I do think he’s a really good coach who could be part of the answer to Notre Dame’s problems.
This series isn’t meant to show that Kelly is solving all our problems and he’s going to take off like a rocket soon. Rather, he’s made a lot necessary improvements and we’re going into the next couple seasons seeing where that takes us.
There are no promises.
If you’re comparing ND’s teams under Kelly to Alabama (as it seems you are with the talk of dominance) then of course you’re going to not really see much rebuilding or improvement. But if you’re comparing what he’s done with the team to what we saw in the last 3 years of Weis, there are stark contrasts in improvement that I think are ridiculously obvious.
How much more improvement there will be, or how high Kelly takes ND? I don’t know the answers to those questions.
I’ve already gone over the evidence numerous times. We don’t need to look at videos to point those out. Again, the overall defense, the stout run defense, and the defensive line——all major weaknesses before Kelly arrived and now they are strengths. This is a major part of the rebuilding, but just a few of the dozen or more.
Are you going to dispute that improvement? Seriously, I understand and respect if you don’t have the time or don’t want to spend the time digging into it, but I think the onus is on you to really disprove the aspects of rebuilding that nearly everyone is agreeing on that Kelly has done—-not keep saying you don’t see it or whatever.
If it ain't 2,000 words long, I ain't posting it.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 21, 2012 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
So no video evidence? And your response is to simply say “This is the way it is” again? Maybe you should stop saying that you’re touting evidence and start saying you’re touting opinion. Because that’s really all you have. If you really wanted to convince me, you’d use pictures and videos and lines and arrows to illustrate specifically where you believe “fundamentals” are being employed. Instead all you do is say “go back and look at the ______ game.” Well, I did, and I still don’t see fundamentals. I see improvement because Kelly is inherently more competent than Weis, but I also see desperation. I don’t see a team looking to win, I see a team trying desperately not to lose.
And no, the onus is not on me to prove or disprove anything. I’m not the one with the blog. I admit that anything I put forward is merely an opinion. You just happen to disagree with it, which is fine. There are plenty of people who share my opinion—admittedly not too many on here, but there are ND fans who buy what I say a heck of a lot more than what you do. But don’t assume that just because some people on here agree with you and disagree with me that it means that you’re the “rational” one.
We can argue in circles about this all day. But the difference is that I simply agree that you have a differing opinion, whereas you call me “ignorant” and “refusing to acknowledge the evidence.” Well, your evidence isn’t really evidence, and I don’t buy any of it. I don’t expect to change your opinion, and you shouldn’t expect to change mine.
I get that it’s frustrating to you that I don’t swoon at every post you make and agree with everything you say, and this is why you want me to convince you that you’re wrong rather than me being simply content to hold a different opinion. Because how can someone possibly disagree with Eric Murtaugh when EVERYONE ELSE IS AGREEING WITH HIM?!?! So as much as you tell me I can’t simply say that I “don’t see it,” sorry but you’re just going to have to live with that. I can live with you seeing that Kelly is somehow rebuilding. You’re welcome to make more of an argument, but the one you’ve made so far (“Obviously the team is obviously rebuilding because the evidence is obvious and obviously doesn’t need to be shown”) isn’t very convincing, at least not to me. Sry :(
by Meager Reader on Feb 22, 2012 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
MR
How does the competence that Coach Kelly has shown manifest itself?
He's 3 weeks old and screaming.
by Cranked_Irish on Feb 22, 2012 6:50 AM EST up reply actions
It's unfortunate that you had to fall back
Into your tired argument that this is something personal to me and you think I’m out to get you because you don’t agree with everything I say.
It’s becoming increasingly clear that you can’t go 2 or 3 comments without reverting back to this position, and that’s disappointing.
I actually welcome dissenting opinion if it’s backed up with quality thought or at that very least some passion. I will debate and discuss issues with anyone on here, and I rather enjoy doing so.
So what exactly are you bringing to the table here MR?
All you’ve said for the past few months and in this comment section is:
“I don’t agree with you.”
“I don’t see it [the rebuilding].”
Why should I spend an hour breaking down film and drawing pretty lines on the still shots when all you’re going to say is the above statements?
What do you expect me and others to say then?
I’m not upset that you’re challenging me in the least bit. I’m frustrated that you’re calling me out for not “providing enough evidence” and then not refuting anything I put forth with your own evidence. Don’t you see how incredibly annoying that is?
I don’t really know what to think of you MR. Honestly, it seems like you’re trolling a little bit to get me to waste time to try and convince you of my argument——and then turning right around and lecture me for trying to convince you in the first place!
And on top of all that, you’re making this out to be some personal battle, or some OFD regulars vs. Meager Reader—-it’s like you’re going out of your way to manufacture drama that isn’t there. Again, just really annoying and not necessary.
You even went as far as to say I called you “ignorant” when in fact I said nothing to the effect.
See you’ve got it all wrong.
You think I’m upset that you disagree with me, but I am not. You think I’m angry that you dare challenge me (oh, what a hero you are!) when “everyone agrees with everything I say.”
I’m frustrated because you’re not bringing anything of substance to the table, you’re trying to make this personal, you’re manufacturing drama like a 12-year girl, and you’re acting like some sort of martyr in the face of the big mean OFD bully gang.
Essentially you’re telling me SHOW ME MORE EVIDENCE and then following that up with YOU’LL NEVER CONVINCE ME!!!.
So, what’s the point here MR?
Are you trolling? Do you just like to live off the needless drama you’re creating? What’s your deal?
I ended my last comment to you saying that Kelly’s transformation and improvement with the defensive line, run defense, and defense as a whole was a big part of his rebuilding effort. He took the team’s biggest weakness, targeted that area in recruiting, stressed stopping the run, and went out and significantly improved the team here.
I asked you to dispute this—-you did not and instead went off on another tirade that has nothing to do with what we’re trying to discuss.
When we’re talking about rebuilding a large part of the focus has been on the line play, the defense, and rushing on both sides of the ball.
The offensive line play has improved rather significantly, giving up only 17 sacks (and under 20 for both of Kelly’s seasons) this past year, whereas the Irish were over 20 in both 2008 & 2009 after the NCAA worst 2007 season.
What’s more the O-line play has improved to the point where the Irish gained a whole yard more per rush in 2011 versus 2009. The team went from rushing for 128.2 to 160.3 yards per game, and from 13 TD’s to 25 rushing TD’s.
Conversely, the defensive line has decreased the rushing stats by a full yard from 2009, gave up 10 fewer touchdowns, and over 30 yards per game less.
The defense as a whole has given up 1.2 yards per play less, and moved from one of the worst BCS units, to one of the best.
This is all ample evidence to deal with and discuss. If you don’t want to talk about these improvements, what do you want me to say to you? You really think I need to hold your hand and show you some plays of Louis Nix eating his gap with perfect technique to “prove” to you that Kelly is rebuilding?
This isn’t about me challenging you. This is about you challenging me and then backing away when evidence is put in front of you.
Either sack up and speak to these improvements, or move on.
See, I’m more than willing to admit that Kelly has lacked in other areas. His work with the quarterbacks specifically is not a good example of his rebuilding efforts.
At the same time, he’s never going to be absolutely perfect in his rebuilding. There are going to be some things that point to him not rebuilding well, possibly not trying to in the first place, and there are going to be things that point to him specifically rebuilding and doing a very good job at it. It’s my opinion that the latter is heavily outweighing the former right now.
But you, in your wisdom, see ZERO rebuilding? You see none at all? None whatsoever? You’re not willing to credit Kelly with any rebuilding anywhere on the team, both on and off the field?
You think you can keep pointing out the QB situation, the team record and making incredibly vague statements like, I see a team trying not to lose* and think that you’re proving to me or anyone else that Kelly isn’t rebuilding?
*Jesus, talk about using an opinion that can’t be backed up or proven with a shred of evidence. And you’re attacking me for doing this?
So I suggest you stop with the immature BS, and instead debate and talk about Irish football, speak to the improvements me and others see as Kelly rebuilding—-or just leave and go on your merry old way.
If it ain't 2,000 words long, I ain't posting it.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 22, 2012 9:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
WOOOO FUNDAMENTALS
I have already explained, quite thoroughly, my position on how I see Brian Kelly coaching Notre Dame. I am not alone in this position. There are at least some people in the Notre Dame fan base who liked what I said.
The evidence that I put forward was the egregious amounts of turnovers and the overall lack of discipline, which was both pointlessly overaggressive and resulted in costly, unnecessary penalties. This, to me, was an indicator of a team that wasn’t playing solid, fundamental football, disciplined football, and basically after the USF game, they were doing everything (absolutely everything) they could not to lose. Why tackle when you can facemask somebody? I even provided statistical evidence to back this up. You chose to dismiss the stats and make excuses for the lack of discipline.
I’m disappointed that you think I’m a troll, but the reason why I don’t re-argue all of this again and again is because we’ve already gone over it a million times. If I take a "passive" attitude it is because some people on here (e.g. alstein) quickly get nasty whenever I say anything—so I just shrug and say whatever. While I do think people on this blog (even its administrators) have been unnecessarily rude and unwelcoming at times, I don’t necessarily think everyone is out to get me. I understand that because I bring a dissenting opinion to a portion of the fan base that vehemently disagrees with it, there will be…reactions. I bring this not to cause a stir but to contribute a different perspective to the discussion. If you don’t value that, well, then that’s your problem.
But you, in your wisdom, see ZERO rebuilding? You see none at all? None whatsoever? You’re not willing to credit Kelly with any rebuilding anywhere on the team, both on and off the field?
Okay, maybe this is where things got blown out of proportion. I actually do think Kelly has made some positive strides both on and off the field. I think he has done a great job adhering to Notre Dame’s principles in terms of recruiting players not just for athletic ability, but for academic and character attributes as well. The dorms thing was also a good move.
On the field, Kelly—by sheer nature that has had experience as a head coach—is worlds better than Charlie Weis (at the time only previously an NFL coordinator). He has done well in certain areas of the team—you point out the offensive and defensive lines—and with this I generally agree. If these measures are seen as rebuilding, then yes it would appear that Kelly has done some degree of rebuilding. So, there is no "zero" anything. I see some.
But here’s the difference, the main way we appear to disagree: Kelly is not approaching Notre Dame like he did Cincinnati and Central Michigan. Rather than ignore the overwhelming the tradition and expectations of Notre Dame and simply going to work as a cold, calculated coach, he is acutely aware of both and is scrambling every game to keep his job. This, in my opinion, is reflected in the choice at quarterback and the lack of discipline by some players (on defense, the face-masking and P.I. penalties need to be seriously reduced), and this partly explains the horrible turnovers, which I do not see as a fluke. I think the team shares Kelly’s fear about losing games. I generally am in favor of two solutions: 1) either Kelly needs to chill the f**k out and stop seeing ND as ND and start seeing it as the equivalent of a program like Cincy, or 2) the fan base and the alumni need to back the f**k off and let Kelly do his job. He’s feeling this pressure from somewhere. Either he’s putting it on himself ("OMG I’M THE COACH AT ND!!!!") or it’s coming from somewhere else ("Kelly U BETTER WIN!!!").
by Meager Reader on Feb 22, 2012 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
It seems to me that your last paragraph ties back into your original post.
I don’t think the Notre Dame fan base can tolerate five seasons of nothing better or worse than 8-5. Kelly must break through to at least 10 wins in 2012, or the Irish fan base will eat him alive.
Isn’t that the crux of this whole discussion?
whiskey
www.onefootdown.com
Well that was better
Truth is, I do believe Kelly is coaching differently too.
I also agree that he probably should have been more aggressive in his approach on both sides of the ball, and the pressure of winning made him take a step back and take a different approach.
At the same time, I think he’s mostly gone about doing the things the right way. He’s leaned on the defense to a fault—-which I’m okay with really—-and he’s really improved the team in the areas where you want to build a solid foundation for the future.
The turnovers and penalties—-sure you can look at that as not rebuilding properly or teaching fundamentals, etc. I tend to think that most of that is on one player and the other is just a measure of luck and circumstance to a point. As bad as those are—-and they certainly are costly, I’m much more concerned with how the corners step up and make tackles at the line of scrimmage, how the tackles take on blocks, the linebackers shoot through gaps, the offensive line stays on the same page, and wide receivers actually get physical and block down field.
Those are the fundamentals we’re seeing improved and that’s a good foundation to build on.
If it ain't 2,000 words long, I ain't posting it.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 22, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
I think this is a great post
Definitely don’t agree with the content, but good post.
As far as the penalties, lack of discipline, etc. are concerned (DANGER — entering nebulous discussion of intangible ideas using rather heinous analogy), I think that should be in BK’s mind, but should not be something that is addressed before anything he has addressed already. Notably, shoring up the play up front of the big uglies on both sides of the ball. Take a great painting for example (think Monet, not Pollock), the image of the painting is the foundation of that painting. At first glance, you look at that painting and say, “Holy shrimp cocktail, that is a beautiful painting.” Then you get closer, and you can look at the detailed shading and brushstrokes that add to the painting’s beauty. Cleaning up the penalties you speak of should be viewed as one of the finishing touches, AFTER the foundation of the team is in place. Otherwise, you have a disciplined team that can’t do anything — a well shaded stick person drawing, which pales in comparison to a painting that’s nearly complete.
/I award myself no points
//May god have mercy on my soul
I gotta stop posting on bad days...
sorry for being a d-bag. I still stand by most of what I said but need to tone it down obviously.
Regarding penalties, ND saw a huge spike this year but were 14th in the country last year. They still had less penalties than their opponents this year which removes a lot of the variance compared to national stats (different reffing crews, rivalry games, whether being on national TV has an effect, etc.). I guess all of this is just a way of saying how much does this have to do with coaching and how much is just random error?
Someone else here did a little work a while back regarding turnovers and how those are maybe random as well. Anyway, I guess my feeling is that taking a one year snapshot on those things isn’t necessarily reflective of the coach, but maybe over the long-term is (perhaps like the Raiders leading the league in penalties every year).
About Kelly needing to chill out and coach at ND like he did at Cincy, it’s interesting, when he was hired, many were saying how completely different ND is than Cincy and he has to get ready for that and be some different guy. Now the criticism (and not a wrong one necessarily) is that he needs to loosen up and be more like the Cincy Brian Kelly. Just interesting to me.
About Kelly needing to chill out and coach at ND like he did at Cincy, it’s interesting, when he was hired, many were saying how completely different "ND is than Cincy and he has to get ready for that and be some different guy."
This exactly. I just dont see how someone can compare ND to Cincinnati right after they talked about not seeing improvement because 8-5 is not good enough for a program like Notre Dame. If Cincy or CMU (ex-went 4-7 first year up here in Mt Pleezy, then 6-5 in the second) did what kelly did at ND people would not have bitched and complained that this is not good enough for a program like ND. Its so contradictory to take that view. Main point: ND’s fan base is beyond screwed up.
Stylistically, it is a good idea to put your thesis right up front, then provide the evidence, then circle back to it.
by Mouth of the South on Feb 22, 2012 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
*
(I keed, MotS. I keed because I love.)
by The Guys Get Shirts! on Feb 22, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
You talking to me Mouth?
“This series of articles is not an excuse for failure, an apology for Brian Kelly’s first two seasons, nor a prediction for major success in the coming years at Notre Dame, but rather testimony that honest and patient rebuilding can lead to a restoration of winning in South Bend.”
That would pretty much be my thesis, not Kelly is totally rebuilding this bitch—-although that is an important aspect of these talks.
Not sure if that’s what you were getting at, but if it was, the series isn’t over yet!
If it ain't 2,000 words long, I ain't posting it.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 22, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
I think he was disputing this charge from MR above:
“First, I don’t think it’s really fair to ask ‘Is Kelly rebuilding’ and then immediately conclude ‘Kelly is in fact rebuilding’ without discussing it. This would have been better said at the end of the post. ‘So, we can conclude that Kelly is rebuilding.’” (Of course, you do discuss this throughout the post.)
It is, as Mouth says, better said at the beginning, where one should lay out ones claims/thesis before proceeding to support those claims. “Conclusions,” in this sense, do come up front, as you have them. Carry on.
#figureitoutbobby
by fishoutofwater on Feb 22, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
That's what I was thinking too
But I didn’t want to pass up the Deniro picture and a chance to fully explain myself.
And start beef with Mouth if possible.
If it ain't 2,000 words long, I ain't posting it.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 22, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
Of course.
Mouth will surely bite.
#figureitoutbobby
by fishoutofwater on Feb 22, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
We got Beef?
No, we don’t, though you’ll get yours one day soon, murtaugh. Fish nailed it. I was actually defending your stylistic choice to put your thesis right up front, and in so doing, I was falling in line with OFD’s tradition of lapping up your words without thought or compunction.
by Mouth of the South on Feb 22, 2012 12:02 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
You will capitalize my last name
Or you will feel the wrath of my kin. And we come from Knock, County Mayo and fight dirty.
If it ain't 2,000 words long, I ain't posting it.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 22, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
That's hilarious.
It is incumbent upon all of us to keep Murtaugh grounded!
whiskey
www.onefootdown.com
by whiskey OFD on Feb 22, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
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