Kiel Verbals to LSU: Thoughts on the Indiana Star That Got Away
A couple days after Christmas, on the evening of December 27th, 5-star quarterback Gunner Kiel finally let it be known where he would commit for his young football career.
In the end, the LSU Tigers---a team presumably not even on Kiel's radar 4 or 5 months ago---ended up with a player who is considered the top quarterback in the country.
Below are some thoughts on the quarterback who many believed should have been a lock to play football at Notre Dame.
Losing Kiel Hurts
Let's be real here: There are really good odds that Kiel will be a top-notch college quarterback and likely one of the best signal callers in the nation within three years. It's not a guarantee, but history shows us it's fairly likely.
Whether you thought Kiel fit in the Notre Dame offense (he did) you don't ever want to miss out on a quarterback of his caliber. Yes, Hendrix and Golson look to have very bright futures, but Kiel could have really been a diamond for Kelly to haul in.
In this sense, it's a bummer that Kiel chose to leave the state of Indiana and the place where his uncle famously played football.
He's got the size, the arm, good mobility, terrific footwork, and great fundamentals. He's pretty close to the entire package---and missing out on that never feels good.
Lukewarm Reception
Many Irish fans were never that hyped about Kiel coming to South Bend. That probably didn't affect his decision all that much, but I've never seen the Notre Dame fan base be so unconcerned with such a highly-touted quarterback.
That's why there are quite a few people out there barely batting an eye at the news of Kiel going to LSU.
Personally, I found Kiel's recruitment fascinating---mainly because of the aforementioned aspect of so many Notre Dame fans being so "meh" about him.
Some reasons included: Kiel not being a perfect fit for Kelly's system, Notre Dame struggling with two 5-star quarterbacks in recent history, Kiel playing in the not-so-talented state of Indiana, the current depth chart, Kiel seemingly never being that high on Notre Dame from day one, etc.
Some of those are vaild points, but it was pretty wild to see so many Irish fans uninterested when the program is currently slated to have only three quarterbacks for spring ball.
At the same time, there were many pro-Kiel supporters who viewed him as the next great quarterback at Notre Dame---which seemed natural enough for a kid from Indiana whose family member was one of the better signal callers in school history.
Then Again, Was Kiel a Good Idea?
I will admit I was very pro-Gunner Kiel since I started looking over the class of 2012. Back in the summer it was a Mauk vs. Kiel debate and to me there shouldn't have been much of a debate---it was Kiel all day and every day.
Then the staff cooled on Mauk (he committed to Missouri a couple months later) and Kiel sort of shocked the world by originally committing to the Hoosiers.
It looked like Notre Dame was going to skip on taking a quarterback for this class with (what we thought would be) 4 quarterbacks coming back in 2012.
Then this season started and Dayne Crist, our own 5-star bust, couldn't see the field, transferred to Kansas, and now the depth is much weaker behind Rees & Co.
Gunner didn't want to follow uncle Blair's footsteps.
I once argued it was fine for Notre Dame to pass on a QB this cycle, but I think the Irish need one now.
But would Kiel have been a good idea even still?
For whatever reasons, the coaching staff has had a hell of a time managing the current rostered quarterbacks (not assigning any blame right now---it is what it is) and I'm not so sure throwing a young 5-star kid who was born to play quarterback into the mix was the best idea right now for Notre Dame.
As someone who wanted Kiel in the mix, I also was afraid he might be bringing even more quarterback controversy to South Bend.
It sounds nice to say that you need to bring in the best players possible, and that's true to an extent, but there's been enough controversy on this roster without a 5-star prodigy bringing up the rear.
Plus...
Any Baggage with Kiel?
This is entirely conjecture on my part, but as much as I loved Kiel as a prospect, something never sat right with the way he handled his recruitment.
There's certainly zero evidence of any character flaws with Kiel and the vast majority of fans have admitted that he's handled his business with a lot of class.
Still, I get a little worried when a recruit of this magnitude is as quiet about things as Kiel was, and additionally, made some of the puzzling decisions that he made.
First it was an Oklahoma/Alabama/Arkansas/Indiana/Notre Dame battle and he commits to Indiana.
Okay a little shocking, but he had his legit reasons.
Then he leaves Indiana, re-opens things, cuts it down to Notre Dame, LSU, and...uhh, Vanderbilt---ultimately choosing the Tigers.
Early on it was rumored he wanted to play early and stay close to home, and choosing Indiana seemed to suggest he wasn't overly concerned with winning. By heading to LSU, almost the exact opposite seems true.
In this era of Twitter/Facebook and daily updates with most kids craving the attention and spotlight, it's just weird to see someone like Kiel be so underground about everything.
Add in the fact that he flirted with Notre Dame on two occasions and ended up elsewhere and it's pretty obvious that Kiel wasn't very serious about wearing the blue and gold. That's fine of course and it doesn't necessarily mean Kiel has any baggage, but I would have put high odds on him transferring if he ended up in South Bend.
Better Off with Fuller
Easing the pain of losing Kiel is the fact that New Jersey quarterback/athlete Devin Fuller is back on Notre Dame's radar and the coaching staff being in a decent position with him as he looks to set up an official visit soon.
Fuller is a tremendous athlete who has drawn comparisons to Pat White and even our own Everett Golson. His offer sheet is among the best in the country with Arizona, Nebraska, Rutgers, TCU, UCLA, Alabama, Arizona State, Boston College, Florida State, Iowa, Miami, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State, Pittsburgh, South Carolina, and Wisconsin among many vying for his talents.
Notre Dame originally offered Fuller hoping to get him to play in the Irish defensive backfield, but it now appears they are willing to give him a shot at quarterback---the position he prefers to play in college.
Fuller is the 34th best prospect in the country according to Rivals.
In fact, landing Fuller might be the best option for Notre Dame.
At Notre Dame you're going to need all the help you can get, so a highly mobile quarterback is always going to be preferable. Unless a prep star is a super polished thrower (as Kiel is) you can expect Kelly to lean heavily towards recruiting very mobile signal callers.
Fuller is the kind of dynamic runner (3,632 yards, 11.6 average, 49 TD as an upperclassman) who could easily open up the Irish offense. While scouts say he needs work on his passing game, Fuller has the advantage of being a quarterback since his freshman season and finished his last two years at Old Tappan High School with a very respectable 4,091 yards on 65% accuracy with 40 touchdowns and 14 interceptions.
Add it up and you have a smart and athletic prospect who could be an excellent fit for Notre Dame's offense.
The best part is that the coaching staff and Fuller may be much more patient in refining his skills, getting used to the system, and waiting in the wings behind Goldrix than Gunner Kiel likely ever would have been.
So while missing out on Kiel was a hit to Notre Dame recruiting, bringing in Devin Fuller to the fold could be the better long-term plan for the Fighting Irish.
42 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
This
recruiting cycle has been very interesting. We’ve only about 6 spots left and Elijah Shumate will be pulling the trigger Saturday. He is considered to be a very strong ND lean. We are in on quite a few other prospects, most being highly sought after skill players(WRs and DBs). A couple linemen are still out there(Armstead andGarnett) but mostly ND is after speed and playmakers. It’s going to be a good haul.
You’re right about the Kiel situation Eric, it was kinda weird. As time went by , those of us that follow this stuff, felt something didn’t mesh with Gunner and ND. We kept hearing any day he would commit but, it never happened. I think a lot of us had moved on before he even announced. Hope everything works out for him down in the bayou.
The "meh"
That he did not commit soon after he turned away from IU led to the “meh” feeling. It started to feel like he was looking for reason to go somewhere else. I think most of us felt he was going elsewhere when, after the initial euphoria of hope, nothing happened. I thought Vandy had him, but again, the time stretched out.
It is the paradox of the instant communications and social media landscape. If you don’t keep everyone updated on your thoughts, people distrust your decision making process. Especially if you are being quiet, somewhat aloof, and going against the grain of people’s expectations.
That being said, the decision seems impulsive, like a kid in a candy store going from one jar of jelly beans to another. IU, ND, Vandy, LSU….I would not be surprised to see him change one more time.
Well hello there hangover. Fancy meeting you here this bright Thursday morning.
by Cranked_Irish on Jan 2, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
That's a good way of putting it
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Jan 2, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
I was one of those in the "meh" group with Kiel...
Not really sure the reasons for my indifference other than QB, wasn’t an immediate need for ND with Goldrix on the way, however unproven they are, so is Kiel. I also go fed up with people all ready anointing him as part of the team a few months ago and saying how he’d be (or had a strong chance to be) the 2012 QB, when it was mildly clear this kid had no idea what he wanted to do…
But, for me it all came down to QB not being an immediate need, which led to why I was so “meh” about him. I remember having this discussion with you guys earlier when talking about him, even if he did sign his LOI he was a strong transfer candidate with how the QB situation currently sits at ND…
Oh well, don’t want the kid here now…let’s move on and hope we see LSU in the championship game in a few years when Kiel is under center!
"Although I really thought that you were 'Anti Internet-Tough-Guy.' But no, you’re a tough guy who’s against the internets? I see." Mouth of the South
I feel ya
But I think we need a QB.
I’m not too comfortable moving Massa under center to make it four guys.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Jan 2, 2012 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
Massa
He’s never going to break into the receiver rotation, so why not make him the #4 QB next year? If we’re right about the Guy We Can’t Sleep On, it should be no problem. We definitely need to bring in a QB in the 2013 Class, of course.
by IrishColts17 on Jan 2, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
I think he's just a body at either position personally
Which is fine as the 4th QB I suppose.
But I really want Fuller this year.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Jan 2, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Anohter QB is a want not a need
If there is one they think could start eventually, sure, but no need to get one just to have four
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 2, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree
I think we always need 4 QB’s.
And I don’t really count Massa.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Jan 2, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
Preferably you have four QBs, that is conventional wisdom
but it is not critical when you have three returning QBs. While getting one per year is generally a good idea, BK can afford to not get one this year. If an opportunity presents itself like with Kiel and now maybe Fuller. sure, go for it. But if they don’t get one this go round, no biggie.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 2, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
I totally forgot about Massa...
Where can I find a good scouting report on him?
"Although I really thought that you were 'Anti Internet-Tough-Guy.' But no, you’re a tough guy who’s against the internets? I see." Mouth of the South
I saw it as no big deal that the Irish didnt get him.
IMO he wasnt a fit for BK’s style of offense. One report that I read on Kiel was all the usual…good mechanics, great arm, etc etc. The report also said that Kiel played in a league that only has one other player going to a BCS school and it wasnt like he played in a Texas, Cali or Fla high school league, although the reporter said he would have done well in one of those leagues. It was also stated that he was fairly mobile and could run but also that he was as big if not bigger than most D-lineman he played against.
Irish need another Golson type and Fuller or Alviti seem to fit the style of offense that BK wants to run.
I don't have a problem questioning his level of competition
But I do think he was a pretty good fit for the offense BK runs—-kinda like a bigger, stronger, and just as mobile version of Hendrix.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Jan 2, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
The rushing stats seem over rated
His 3-year rushing stats were…1025 yds (including sacks) for about 340/year..or a 30 yd/game against less than stellar defenses. Through October 10, he had 65 carries for 278 yds, a 4.2 ypc. Pedestrian at best. For comparison, Fuller carried 191 times for 2306 yds (as a JR) – 12.6 ypc
Kiel is what he is rated as, a 5-star pro style, pocket passer. More akin to Clausen/Crist than Hendrix/EG/Fuller.
Well hello there hangover. Fancy meeting you here this bright Thursday morning.
by Cranked_Irish on Jan 2, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Fuller is 180 pound run-first QB
There’s something to be said for a big guy like Kiel who can move his feet.
Yes, I would prefer a Fuller-Golson type, but someone like Kiel could do a lot of damage as a great passer who could run for ~300 yards a season.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Jan 2, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
Still 300-yd against crappy defenses from central Indiana
does not give me much hope for pushing any yardage against D1A defenses. I doubt 300 yd would be obtainable over the course of 2 years.
Well hello there hangover. Fancy meeting you here this bright Thursday morning.
by Cranked_Irish on Jan 2, 2012 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Alright then
I’m not about to cry out that he’s not a good runner or can’t/won’t be at LSU. He’s got great footwork and is pretty fleet of foot as a runner with good power.
If you really wanted to use the stats and competition against him, see what his rushing average is without the sacks.
He certainly wouldn’t be the first kid to have decent stats and be somewhat successful in college.
Oh look, someone doesn’t agree with everything I say! Someone alert Meager Reader!!
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Jan 2, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with your "someone doesn't agree with everything I say!" statement...
"Although I really thought that you were 'Anti Internet-Tough-Guy.' But no, you’re a tough guy who’s against the internets? I see." Mouth of the South
All I meant was that he is a 5-star pocket passer
Doesn’t mean he won’t be a great college QB, just not the best suited for this offense. A pocket QB was not a need this year, so meh on his not coming to ND. I wish him the best against our common opponents, just not against us.
Well hello there hangover. Fancy meeting you here this bright Thursday morning.
by Cranked_Irish on Jan 2, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not really sold on Hendrix...better than Rees...yes, but I have
to see more from him and BK didnt do that this season where he should have. Now we have another wasted spring of determining who the QB will be where the irish should instead be working on team cohesiveness to go into the fall ready to roll and fine tune the offense.
Indiana HS Football
I have to say, the competition level has increased dramatically over the past 10 years. I think it has a lot to do with the success of the Colts and the state turning to football in down years for basketball.
I am not saying it is Florida, Texas, California or even with Ohio, Pennslyvania or Georgia. However, there are a lot of kids headed to D1 schools, especially BCS conference schools. For instance, ND has two kids from Indianapolis in Sheldon Day (Warren Central—top 20 in the national rankings) and John Turner (Cathedral, who played probably one of the toughest HS schedules in the country).
I was firmly in the pro-Kiel camp all along, and think he was more of a Brady Quinn or even Aaron Rodgers type player. He basically was a one-man show all year, losing a lot of talent around him from the previous season.
I wish the kid all the luck in Baton Rouge, but he likely sits for a few years behind Mettenberger and 3 QBs from last year’s class.
I don't tweet often--but when I do, you can be sure it isn't important.
@jemiesle
Ive always been Meh about kiel
I just figured it was because i thought we didnt need a qb this year. But in my opinion, we still dont need one, but i really want fuller. I honestly dont know what it is, Kiel was just never an attractive option to me.
Kiel would have been a great get for ND but in the end I would rather get Devin Fuller. I think Murtaugh has a point when he says that something was weird about Kiel’s recruitment. I think having Kiel would have created an even bigger QB controversy than the Irish will already have this offseason.
"Viva los Zapatistas y la Revolucion"
If the Irish can sign ath/qb Devin Fuller it will
Be fine I think. While I would have loved for Kiel to choose Notre Dame, the main reason was for name recognition. I believe that an elite WR and another top OT would have jumped on board. While this could still happen, Kiel would have booked it. Fuller is an electric prospect with the ball in his hands and if he wants to play QB I say let him.
Kenneth Lewis Moore
by lightskin350 on Jan 2, 2012 6:40 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I would have accepted Kiel, of course
But I think the reason I was “meh” on his recruitment was because the current depth chart already has three QBs who are sophomores-or-younger, and throwing a 5-star recruit into the mix, who would probably expect to play right away, would have made for a messy depth chart. Of course, if he’s that good you accept him and forget it, but I think most of us would like to see what Hendrix and Golson can do first before we put our hearts towards another QB.
It’s the same thing with regards to him fitting Kelly’s offense, by the way. If he’s that good, you fit the offense to him and forget it. And I mean…we just went an entire season with Tommy Rees, you can’t tell me Kiel’s a worse fit THAN THAT.
Devin Fuller just seems more in line with what Notre Dame needs in the depth chart. This is probably stupid since we’re talking about a 5-star recruit, but it just feels more neat and tidy to bring in a guy who will naturally expect to sit for at least a season rather than a guy who expects to play right away. With Kiel, ND would have four QBs who expect to compete for playing time next season. It just seems messier that way.
Quote
And I mean…we just went an entire season with Tommy Rees, you can’t tell me Kiel’s a worse fit THAN THAT.
Well played.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Jan 2, 2012 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
On that note, is there any chance
that Kelly gives Hendrix and Golson 100 % of the snaps in the spring and deems Rees a sunk cost? Those guys need all the reps they can get to fulfill their potential.
I don't see it happening.
I predict that everyone gets equal reps to start off—say first 3-5 practices. Then Hendrix and Golson split 80%, and Rees gets 20%, say for another 3-5 practices. Then the better of Hendrix and Golson gets 60-70% of the reps, the other guy gets 20%, and Rees gets the scraps. After he’s started over a dozen games—most of which he won singlehandedly—he’s not going from most of the reps to none of the reps.
by Mouth of the South on Jan 3, 2012 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
Most of that post sounded good, until
you said " most of which he won singlehandedly". I would argue he didnt win any games singlehandedly and they won a bunch of those games in spite of him. I agree though that Kelly will probably give him a fair share at first. Hopefully in August Rees is 3rd string. hate to pile on the kid but he just isnt a good Div 1 QB.
You must turn your sarcasm detector in to the One Foot Down motor pool for repairs by the end of the week.
It’ll take us at least that long to fix Meager Reader’s memory card.
by Mouth of the South on Jan 4, 2012 12:42 AM EST up reply actions
On his recruitment
I think it’s refreshing for a kid to be quiet about his recruiting, stay off of Twitter, consult with family about his decision, and in general play it close to the vest. The only thing that bothered me about his recruiting was that it always seemed clear that he didn’t really want to go to ND. It was pretty clear when he could have committed all along but didn’t.That is not intended as a knock on him. If he didn’t want to, he didn’t want to. Whaddayagonnado?
And I am PRAYING for a Fuller commit, because there’s a built-in catch phrase: “FULLER!!! Lay off the Pepsi!”
by Mouth of the South on Jan 2, 2012 9:28 PM EST reply actions
Playing the "Home Alone" card again?
Side note: some of the scouts wrote that Kiel had good accuracy and could make all the throws, then in the same breath say that a weakness was arm strength.
Saywhat????
Just thought I would share…
I don't tweet often--but when I do, you can be sure it isn't important.
@jemiesle
I think these summer camps should measure how hard QB's throw
We could get them to perform a whole array of throws, add in some pass rushing to keep them off-balance, maybe force some throws off their back foot on purpose, etc.
It’s also be sweet if they timed their release like MNF showed during a Colts game and how Manning gets rid of the ball insanely quickly.
I’d watch this stuff all day long.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Jan 2, 2012 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
And yes
I’m masochistic and want to watch Rees (well if he was still a recruit) throw a 15 yard out from the other side of the field.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Jan 2, 2012 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
"The reception of Rees's 15 yard out
— when we return from commercial break"
by pburns2010 on Jan 3, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Good for a chuckle
That’s a rec
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Jan 3, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
Fuller a great fit
I agree Eric ND needs 4 QB’s. Fuller might be a great fit since he is highly rated as a possible Def Back and or Kick returner/runner/receiver. With Golson, Hendrix, Rees ahead of him, it is unlikely he sees the field as a freshman QB, unless there were injuries or transfers. I think ND would be a great fit for him and he would be a great fit for ND.
But as Colts17 commented above, It is highly unlikely that Massa sees the field in serious minutes as a receiver. If he has to be switched back to QB, He will be much further along than any incoming freshman having two years in Kelly’s system although only one as a QB.
It is my understanding also that he was regarded coming out of H.S. between the talent level of Hendrix and Rees. he runs a 4.8 40 compared to 4.7 40 of Hendrix. Massa was from Cincy as were Hendrix and Kelly. I think he was one of Kelly’s recruits shortly after his arrival. Kelly must have had high regards for him and seen him often being from Cincy. I think Massa was odd man out this year with Rees having enrolled early and having 4 starts already. he is similar size to Hendrix with great hands.
Rivals has Fuller graded as a 4 star athlete and Scout as a four star QB. I hope we get him! He sounds like a Playmaker in whatever spot(s) he fills. Has anyone heard inside rumors as to how Massa looked in practice before being converted to wide receiver,
Fuller Speed Speed Speed
Yes to Fuller!!!! Yes, i just revisited the tape of his Junior highlights. I was thinking he might have been more a Run first rather than pass. Having revisited on U Tube, I get your point Eric
He throws great and most of his runs appeared to be predetermined by his coach before the snap. He might make a great QB and I can see he would be great as a DB. He sticks it to em. He is a definite playmaker.

by 



















