Counting Down the Irish with Keith Arnold: 1-10
by Eric Murtaugh on Aug 2, 2011 7:31 AM EDT
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PrintWe skipped a post with this series and we're jumping right to the top 10 of the best Notre Dame football players.
Keith Arnold over at Inside the Irish has unveiled the last five.
For the second straight year, there wasn't a whole lot of disagreement at the top of the list.
The top 25 based on all of the blogs picks comes after the jump.
25. Taylor Dever (OT, Sr.)
24. Chris Watt (OG, Jr.)
23. Zeke Motta (S, Jr.)
22. Aaron Lynch (DE, Fr.)
21. Carlo Calabrese (LB, Jr.)
20. TJ Jones (WR, Soph.)
19. Louis Nix (NT, Soph.)
18. Braxston Cave (C, Sr.)
17. Tommy Rees (QB, Soph.)
16. Prince Shembo (OLB, Soph.)
15. Trevor Robinson (OG, Sr.)
14. Ethan Johnson (DE, Sr.)
13. Dayne Crist (QB, Sr.)
12. Tyler Eifert (TE, Jr.)
11. Kapron Lewis-Moore (DE, Sr.)
10. Robert Blanton (CB, Sr.)
9. David Ruffer (K, Sr.)
8. Theo Riddick (WR, Jr.)
7. Cierre Wood (RB, Jr.)
6. Darius Fleming (OLB, Sr.)
TOP FIVE:
5. Gary Gray (CB, Sr.)
4. Zack Martin (LT, Jr.)
3. Harrison Smith (S, Sr.)
2. Manti Te’o (ILB, Jr.)
1. Michael Floyd (WR, Sr.)
MY PERSONAL TOP 10:
10. David Ruffer (K, Sr.)
9. Zack Martin (G, Jr.)
8. Cierre Wood (RB, Jr.)
7. Darius Fleming (OLB, Sr.)
6. Theo Riddick (WR, Jr.)
5. Harrison Smith (S, Sr.)
4. Dayne Crist (QB, Sr.)
3. Gary Gray (SB, Sr.)
2. Manti Te'o (LB, Jr.)
1. Michael Floyd (WR, Sr.)
- Anyone want to argue that Te'o should be number one over Floyd? I'd be willing to listen.
- There's a pretty big jump from the top 2, no? Does Notre Dame need about five of those elite players to win a national championship?
- I'm not sure Zack Martin should be as high as he is on the average. He played really well last year though.
- Personally, I think Gary Gray has been more consistent and played at a higher level of play throughout his career than Harrison Smith.
- I put Crist much higher than anyone. I'm not that worried about that placement at all.
- I think Cierre Wood and Theo Riddick might push their way into the top 5 by the end of the year.
- Is Darius Fleming underrated or overrated?
- While making the picks for this project I was kind of upset because the talent didn't seem to be as good as I thought. However, now looking at the top 15 it seems like there is a lot of talent. We can do better but that's a really solid top 15.
Speak your mind Irish nation!
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I would put Te'o at #1
Simply put, he starts at LB anywhere in the country. Anywhere. WRs seem to be a dime a dozen in college football (not taking anything away from Floyd, he starts anywhere as well), but there just aren’t that many special LBs. That is why I put Te’o at 1.
Honestly, by season’s end he should be a household name (if he isn’t already) and put up some big numbers (135+ tackles), earning plenty of All-American pub. His one weakness last season was in coverage (over or under expanding, leaving holes in the zone) that was addressed by late in the year.
Ultimately, I think they are #1 and 1A on the list, almost interchangeable. Either way I am good with, and yes, there is a bit of a drop off after #2.
Those are all good points.
I’ll tell you one thing….Te’o will be number one on the list next year!
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Aug 2, 2011 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I was gonna say something along the same lines
I will also admit that Manti is quickly becoming my favorite ND player ever.
But I don’t really have any problem with Floyd at 1
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by averagegatsby on Aug 2, 2011 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Ever hear Brian Smith's
account of the Declan Sullivan tragedy? He says that Te’o flies over to where the accident happens, and jumps the fence—aren’t these fences like 7 feet tall? I know he means that Te’o scaled the fence in rapid fashion, not that he actually jumped it, but still impressive—to offer whatever help he could?
Most D1 football players, I would think, would be too worried about their personal safety and draft status to do anything like that.
Te’o is clearly a “foxhole guy.” Perfect middle linebacker. Even if all he had was his toughness and instincts. But he’s also built like a brick shithouse and runs like a gazzelle. Rare talent. And yes, one of my favorites ever. All he needs to do to cement that status is (a) grow a Polynesian mane to put Troy Polamalu to shame—that he hasn’t done this already is my only knock against him—and (b) lead these Fighting Irish to a national championship.
I don’t expect him to equal his numbers from last year, though. First, I think we’re all hoping that the rest of the defense steps up and makes more tackles. Second, our opponents will probably try even harder to run and throw away from him. Third, If our defense plays like it did post-Navy—yes, I’m including Tulsa—and our offense takes the typical Kelly-year-two leap, then our defense will be forcing lots of 3-and-outs, and our offense will be putting longer drives together and putting up its own three-and-outs much less frequently. So I expect Te’o to have a better overall year, while posting fewer tackles. If you remember from last year, the other players that were leading the counrty in tackles were playing for crappy teams. You don’t necessarily want to have to nation’s leading tackler on your team.
Mouth Of The South
by Mouth of the South on Aug 2, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Harrison Smith
Read some comments from Mike Mayock on Harrison Smith. Raves. You would have to say Mayocks credentials are pretty good. He has nice things to say about Gray also, and actually Blanton too. He said, most would be suprised at how highly the three are thought of by NFL scouts.
Though I think highly of Dayne(top ten), after reading Mayock, I would have Harrison third. As the parameters of this poll were not spelled out, after #3 it becomes tougher to gauge. For me anyways.
I have read those comments from Mayock.
However, it’s not like people in his position haven’t raved about Irish players in the past who didn’t turn out to be All-Americans.
I still had the guy at #5, but I get the suspicious feeling we COULD be saying to ourselves, “What were we thinking?” having Smith so high.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Aug 2, 2011 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions
opposite
I think it could go the other way. Which position for Mayock, NBC-ND color man or talent evaluator for the NFL network and a former safety? Highly regarded talent evaluator, I might add.
There has never been any doubt about Smith’s athletic abilities. His playing LB at 210lbs. should say enough about his toughness. Playing out of position early, should explain his early struggles too. I think Harrison could have one hell of a season.
I hope you're right
We will see!
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Aug 2, 2011 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
watch the double negatives,
Murtaugh.
Mouth Of The South
by Mouth of the South on Aug 2, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Writing is an art form, no rules apply.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Aug 2, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
If I had to rank the top 25...
I think it looks something like this (though I just put it together in a few minutes, so its hard to call it complete):
1. Te’o — because of the position he plays more than anything
1A. Floyd
3. Wood — showed some flashes of brilliance in just his first year, high expectations
4. Smith — with another solid year, could move way up draft boards
5. Crist — all the talent, showed in flashes. Still only played in a little over 7 games total
6. Martin — most solid/consistent OL in 2010. Could move to RT if the mountain that blocks (Tate Nichols) shows enough to win the LT job.
7. Gray — underrated. Fits the new system extremely well. Can’t say enough
8. Riddick — wish he would play outside and not in the slot. Can really open up things for the rest of the WRs
9. Blanton — single-handedly turned the tide with the blocked punt for TD last year.
10. Fleming — prototype Cat LB. Should have a good year with all of the incoming DL talent
11. Robinson — 4 year starter at RG. Wasn’t healthy at all last year. Expect improvement
12. KLM — With some very talented back-ups in the fold, should be able to go all out every down he is on the field
12A. Johnson — Hard to not talk about both DEs in the same breath. Numbers don’t tell the whole story here, as he just eats up blockers.
14. Cave — solid anchor in the middle, will only improve in year 2 of this offense
15. Ruffer — it is a great thing to have a PK that is basically automatic. The Irish have two with an incoming freshman that probably has more upside than either. A nice luxury to have.
16. Calabrese — I expect a lot more this year playing next to Te’o
17. Eifert — Solid TE, a match-up problem in this offense.
18. Shembo — does he win the starting job at Dog? Who knows, but looked great in flashes last year
19. Cynwar — the D didn’t miss a beat when Williams went out with injury. Could (and probably will) lose the starting job to Nix but will still see the field plenty
20. Rees — a known commodity off the bench. Somewhat limited physically, but accuracy is key to run the spread
21. Motta — could win the other safety job, could be more of a specialist/nickle back
22. Slaughter — health is key here. Has the talent and showed it in a few brief flashes.
23. Jones — Could easily be passed in the depth chart and struggled later in the season. Not sure what to expect here.
24. Watt — probably should move him up the list a bit, but he didn’t play a ton last year
25. Toma — valuable slot receiver, wouldn’t be surprised to see him returning punts
Nice list.
Like me, you didn’t include any new players who haven’t stepped on the field before. Love that you have Cierre so high. Can’t wait to see him play this year.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Aug 2, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I love that you included Toma
Im not sure I’d have him in my Top 25, but I love the way the kid plays given his talent level. When you’re small and not super-fast, and can’t just elevate over DBs or knock them out of the way, you have to play like Wes Welker – catch every ball and head straight up field immediately as hard and fast as you can. While Toma is no Welker yet, I have been very impressed by his doing exactly that – don’t dance, don’t go around people, just head upfield and get what you can get. I honestly get a similar feeling about Toma that I had about a guy named Samardzjida after he was under-used for 2 years. Now, I don’t expect Toma to be the next Shark, but I think there’s a real diamond in the rough there.
Okay, man love diatribe over.
Go Irish.
You can't spell SUCK without SC or UK.
I think he was an easy pick at that spot.
He is a good fit in the slot, gets up field in a hurry like you said, and could possibly be the fourth option at receiver.
No brainer. Plus, he got good reviews in the spring.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Aug 2, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I love Toma in the slot
He played very well at the end of the year. His playing time this season might be limited since he’s splitting reps with Riddick, but it’s a nice luxury to have a player like him as a backup.
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I'm glad
Zack Martin is 4th on this list. In fact, I would have put him 3rd. Best tackle this team has had since Ryan Harris. He’s so much different than those statues Weis put out there with guys like Turkovich, Duncan and Young…I love it.
I don’t like putting Harrison Smith that high either, but who’s going to take his place? Next on my list would be Cierre Wood, but that’s a bit of a projection. It probably should be Gary Gray, who’s not flashy but probably is better than Smith. People’s lasting memory of Smith, though, is 3 INTs against Miami so everyone thinks he’s great right now. If his final play was a Ronald Johnson TD to end the season, as it really should have been, he probably would have been run out of town.
I think you’re right in that this roster doesn’t have a lot of top-tier talent (as evidenced by Harrison Smith finishing 3rd) but I like how many solid players there are 10-20. This team isn’t up to Alabama’s level or anything, but damnit they should be able to beat Michigan and Michigan St. in the same season finally.
I’ll tell you who’s underrated…Tyler Eifert. Why is Theo Riddick ahead of him, because he’s flashier and people have images of Percy Harvin dancing in their heads? Eifert was just as productive as Kyle Rudolph was last season, and was much more consistent than Riddick. Riddick is still a projection at this point, while I feel like Eifert is a proven player.
Few thoughts....
1. The Weis tackles were probably the worst in school history. In fact, I know they were. So, in that sense I think Martin has looked a little bit better than he MIGHT be because he’s not getting toasted every other play. It’s hard for me to really rate Martin unless I watch the line on every snap on film in isolation, and I haven’t done that. Some experts have and they think he’s very good, so I’ll take their word for it. But I remember us talking this way about Trevor Robinson and (for various reasons) he hasn’t lived up to that initial hype.
2. I think Gray should be ahead of Harrison Smith, and that’s where I put him. I still have a bunch of Hayseed mistakes in my head from last year. He was amazing at times, but very hot and cold. Gary Gray was pretty much awesome all year long.
3. I wouldn’t put Eifert ahead of Riddick, but you have a decent argument there. I would counter that Rudolph was pretty much injured even before the season started and never got going or took his game to the next level like a junior in his position should have. However, Eifert basically put up the same numbers that Rudolph has (on average) early in their careers. So there’s that.
But I would still put Riddick ahead of him, because of explosiveness and playmaking ability. Eifert had a nice year, but Riddick at times, was playing at a very high level before his injury. 33 receptions and 3 TD’s over a four game stretch was pretty damn good. With his potential, and getting more comfortable as a receiver…plus getting the ball on reverses and possible wildcat plays….I put him ahead of Eifert and fairly high on the list.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Aug 2, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Grimes is right
Zach Martin was our most invisible tackle in like 5 years. You never heard his name in a negative light. I would have had him in my top 3. And of course Eifert should be higher up. We lost KFR (Kyle F’ing Rudolph) and saw no dropoff in production.
Mouth Of The South
by Mouth of the South on Aug 2, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Invisible, as opposed to Sam Young
who’s signature play was the crippling, drive-killing holding penalty.
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by burger23 on Aug 2, 2011 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dane Crist
I think that if Dayne Crist performs at the level he was touted to, this team can win 10+ games easy. The justification for your high ranking of him(4) makes perfect sense to me.
I think of the quarterback situation a lot like my own Detroit Lions. Injury prone QB?(Stafford/Crist) Check. Backup who finished the year on a 4 game winning streak?(Sean Hill/Tommy Rees) Check. But in Detroit, the fans understand that it had less to do with the backup and more to do with the surrounding cast.(The defense, especially Suh, played with previously unseen fire and of course Calvin Johnson is a beast) The ceiling on Crist(Stafford) is unquestionably miles above the backup and if he stays healthy we can expect big things. If Dayne Crist wins the starting job going into the USF game, he would be unquestionably the best QB on the sidelines. With another year with the playbook and a solid reel of film to watch and correct his mistakes, I expect Dayne to have a monster year if his knees allow him.
That's pretty much what I was thinking
Although I’m not sure he will have a “monster” year. Maybe depends on how you define that.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Aug 2, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
My definition
Would be anything north of 60% completion, 3500+yards and a 3to1 TD/INT ratio.
Which is perfectly reasonable when you look at the passing stats for Kelly’s Bearcats in ’09;
66% completion, 4014yds 39TD/8INT.
And that was with getting 1300yds+ on the ground from the backs(additional 344 from Collaros)
There is no reason to not expect Dayne Crist to not be a household name after the Prime-Time game against Michigan. That secondary will NOT improve enough to stop Riddick/Floyd just their second game into a new system and last I checked, walk-on Jordan Kovacs is still starting at safety. I know a lot of Irish fans are afraid to get too bold after what happen the last two years against Michigan but Eff it, I fully expect us to beat them by multiple scores en rout to a top 15 ranking. (No way does the legend of Denard Robinson begin if Crist’s eyeball didn’t stop working for a half…)
Okay we were thinking about the same thing then.
If Crist stays healthy those numbers are within reach. We should torch UM’s secondary all day night long.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Aug 2, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of which
I really can’t understand how all the Michigan hype this season is justified. Is it based on anything besides hiring a “Michigan Man”? The defense should improve, but they can’t improve that much. I don’t think it’s like our situation between 09-10, which featured decent players being ineptly coached; they simply lack the players outside of the defensive line. Michigan’s offense was good last year as long as they could use Denard Robinson to run the kind of playstation offense you use playing NCAA drunks on a friday evening, but the offense Hoke is installing pretty much the exact opposite. I can’t see Robinson racking up as many passing yards if the defense isn’t keying in on his runs every play.
"Come render the salad unto Caesar"
I agree
You make a good point about their defense. A lot of their fans REALLY want to blame coaching and scheme for their failures on that side of the ball. Up to a certain point, they are right. However, they are simply not that talented on defense, as opposed to our team that had a lot of highly recruited players, who had shown flashes of great play at times in their career in the 2009-10 transition.
They have one player who has All-Conference talent. They have a couple other guys who are borderline 3rd teamers in the Big Ten and maybe 2nd teamers if they play out of their minds. For Michigan, that is pathetic.
I’m sure they will be better, but better for them still likely means not very good. If we can stay balanced on offense, we should be able to move the ball easily on them.
Offensively, I’m very interested to see what they do.
I still think we should have some rather large worries because Robinson can rip off big plays with his feet, but they should be quite a bit less explosive and efficient moving the ball this year. I also think they have a really good OC and that is worrisome too.
However, the biggest positive for us is that I don’t think their running backs are all that great. I’m not even sure they are even that good to be honest.
In that Rich Rod offense, with a once-in-a-generation runner like Robinson being the threat on the ground that he was, it should have been pretty easy for UM running backs to be successful. And they were as bad as Rodriguez has had in a long, long time.
Now they’re going to line up with two receivers in I-formation with Robinson under center and pound it up the middle? With those tiny running backs
Michigan has a good line, but I don’t see how that is going to be anything but a big headache this year. I expect they will stay in shotgun quite a lot and run some of the spread concepts, but Robinson under center is such a less of a threat.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Aug 3, 2011 7:51 AM EDT up reply actions
The word on street is
they’ll spend most of their time in the shotgun and are incorporating the zone-read into the offense. The problem is, Borges, their OC, isn’t familiar with that type of running game, so I think their offense will miss the adjustments and counters RichRod was able to bring. Borges is a very good OC and has a track record of producing good offenses when he has good talent, but UM isn’t built to run that type of offense yet. Robinson won’t have nearly the season he did last year.
As for their defense… I think some people who are hyping UM are forgeting how terrible that defense was. Yeah, the scheme will be better and the coaching will be improved, but the talent isn’t there. A new scheme won’t make their safeties faster or CBs able to cover better.
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Good to hear
that the OC isn’t very familiar with the spread option, especially since we’re the second game on their schedule. They’re not going to have much time to work out the kinks.
"Come render the salad unto Caesar"
Crist REALLY needs to get his completion percentage up
60% isn’t really that good in the spread, which bases most of it’s passing game on quick, short throws. Something in the 66-70% range would be ideal.
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He needs to improve it, but anything north of 66% is probably asking too much
Particularly if he continues throwing the ball deep. It’s not like Texas’ spread and it’s 90% short passes. I’d honestly be happy with 63% because that would really make a huge difference.
As big of a fan as I am of Crist, I’d be shocked if he ever goes over 65%
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Aug 2, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he can do it
I know I keep going back to Quinn and Clausen’s jumps, but it just really makes me hopeful. Quinn went from 54% to 65% and Clausen went from 61% to 68%. Seems a lot of last year’s ugly miscues were a combination of confusion for both him and the receivers, and him just missing spots – both of which will improve this year. Plus another year at receiver for Reddick, Jones getting more comfortable with the college game, and I think 65% is a reasonable expectation for Crist and 66-70% being something to shoot for.
This.
Plus, out of the Quinn/Clausen/Crist comparisons, Dayne has shown so far to be the least accurate as far as I’m concerned. Completion percentage doesn’t always tell the whole story, for example, Clausen was always hyper-accurate but didn’t have the protection and experience to make it pay off until his sophomore year.
Crist is a lot like Quinn has been in the NFL (and kind of was at times in college) in that he will miss on wide open throws with little to no pressure.
We saw Crist being pretty shaky on bubble screens, some slants, and an assortment of other throws. I remain skeptical than he’ll ever go over 65% because I think that’s reserved for the truly accurate QB’s…of which I don’t think he ever will be.
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Aug 3, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I can understand that
Quinn and Clausen always looked more comfortable in their own skin than Crist has. I’m counting on a lot of those awful looking passes being the result of nerves and inexperience, that more reps with Kelly, his receivers, and in this system lead to him improving his timing and increasing his poise. The skepticism is definitely reasonable though.
I like your Crist ranking, Murtaugh
and I, like you and Piratey, expect Crist to put up those numbers. Maybe I should start speaking in double negatives like you and piratey.
Mouth Of The South
by Mouth of the South on Aug 2, 2011 4:36 PM EDT reply actions
I don't like your tone today MotS!
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Aug 2, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
You're taking his side now!
Sky rockets in flight.
by Eric Murtaugh on Aug 3, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
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