Mary Fell Off the Dome: Which Traditions are the Most Important?

Just pick your spots to read Rock’s House. I could not wait for the explosion after the uniforms were unveiled. The ND boards are like everything else. Moderation is the key. Ignore the wacko’s from both sides. ND would be in bad shape if all the alums were ACross.
That being said, there are more brilliant and funny people on the ND boards, than anywhere else. Keep up the good work. I love reading your stuff.
Go Irish,

Failing to modernize and adapt to some extent will cause Notre Dame to fall behind to some extent, which is why I am glad to see ND use adidas as a platform to introduce new jerseys and keep fans and more importantly PLAYERS on their toes. Keeping tradition is important because it is what makes ND unique, but being stubborn about it can cause harm.
It would be ignorant to say that the new throwback jerseys are a bad thing for the University or that the discussions of a turn field or jumbo tron are ruining the integrity of ND. They are not. Times have changed and recruits are interested in more than just tradition. They want to have the gear (don’t tell me Oregon would have risen to prominence w/o Nike apparel), and they want to see themselves on replays in the stadium. These small changes wouldn’t ruin the integrity of Notre Dame or the many traditions Our Lady’s University carries
Every Notre Dame fan is desperate for a BCS appearance and a National Championship

Sorry my post cut off for some reason….
The best way to get back to the BCS and get a Championship is to get great players. These players combined with our top notch coaching staff can do wonders to bring ND football back to the level it was in the Holtz era.
In keeping the jerseys to the same blue and gold color scheme with the occasional green, adidas and Notre Dame can continue to make them stylish with tradition (heck, the tech fit was a great step in the right direction last year). This is key because we can evolve to keept he recruits happy, while maintaining our identity as Notre Dame, the school that everyone looks to for excellence, tradition, and great football.

I love reading everyone’s opinion, even if I don’t agree with them.

Nodbody ever said the Irish fan base wasn’t passionate about the football team.

Keep the good stuff coming!

Eric, I think this is a common theme surrounding all great organizations. Individuals that were a part of them 5, 10, 20+ years before will always tend to say thing like “So and so would have never done that” and “In the old days….” All great organizations continue to evolve and the discussions about how they are doing so will always be hot topics amongst the masses.

Great post. This will make for an interesting discussion.

Jake,

Yes, it can be frustrating to read some stuff there, but I actually really enjoy it. It certainly doesn’t hurt my ability to write about things or get discussion going.

Thanks for the kind words.

Alex,

It’s definitely a balancing act, and not an easy one at that…especially at Notre Dame. If anyone is aware, many Michigan fans are saying a lot of the same things too (i.e. the throwbacks are going to lead to more disasters in the future, etc.).

But I agree, there are certain, not all, areas that Notre Dame will be forced to modernize now and in the future. I would put wearing an occasional throwback uniform as part of that modernization process.

However, I’m still a little skeptical about the Techfit uniforms. Great idea, but they didn’t really look that sharp in my opinion last year. We need to avoid the Kona Schwenke look of having his jersey barely showing his numbers and a white undershirt exposed, among some other problems.

Luckily they looked better in the spring game so that’s good. I’m sure Adidas is still trying to perfect the fabric and look.

Whiskey,

So true. That’s the way the world works.

Just like ever-increasing ticket prices!!

Changes leading to the end of the (Notre Dame Football) universe? Didn’t we all survive the rapture?

Tradition is often a convenient excuse for avoiding change, and this case is no different. Throwback unis are interesting from time to time, and since this game is the first in the history of Michigan Stadium, it warrants a little extra fanfare. The same fans that complain about changes and rising ticket prices are the same ones that pay the money for the seats and then sit on their hands during the game like it is a tennis match.

I’m surprised that you didn’t mention (or I didn’t see) any mention of the playing surface. This has been a point of debate over the past few years, and is probably the most likely change to Notre Dame Stadium in the next few years.

Jim,

I could have included the playing surface as well as a couple other topics, but as you can see the post was long enough!!

I expounded on the FieldTurf/Video Screen (I prefer this to jumbotron) after reading Anthony Hunn’s great post “Tradition is a Guide, Not a Jailer” on Clashmore Mike a while back. Here’s what I said if anyone is interested and hadn’t seen it before:

"We often hear, as one poster has already stated, that change for the sake of change is often a foolish exercise.

But the point of the article is that NOT thinking about change or NOT accepting change just because it is change, is the same kind of foolish behavior, and frankly, much more prevalent amongst the Notre Dame fan base.

The video board and FieldTurf talks simply illustrate this point all the more. The great majority of the time that anyone brings up something that should be added to the stadium or to the gameday experience, it is usually met with a bunch of simplistic "Hell No!" "It’s not needed!" and "Notre Dame is tradition, let’s keep it that way!"

Also in many instances, the hardcore traditionalists sensationalize the issue and publicize the absolute worst outcome of said proposed changed.

For example, if a jumbotron ever was to be installed inside ND Stadium, then we’d have advertisements, cheesy videos, loud music and all of the other bells and whistles that many other schools and NFL teams use. To many of them, that is the end result, there’s no in between, there’s no tasteful way of doing it, or incorportating it nicely into the stadium structure. It’s an annoying eye-sore and that is that.

Now with that said, is there a compelling reason to install a video board or FieldTurf?

Well, FieldTurf makes teams faster and Kelly wants to build a fast team. Kelly himself has said he favors it. The current field has been a mess and is more prone to cause injuries and slow the team down. And while the data is inconclusive, FieldTurf and other surfaces like Desso GrassMaster are likely safer for players.

I’d say that sounds like some compelling reasons, no?

As for the jumbotron, there is not compelling reasons to put up a giant screen that sticks out like a sore thumb and use it like most other schools do.

But some form of tasteful video boards are compelling. The majority of football fans across the country favor replays, as do I. I also think other uses of the video screen (pre-game highlight video, a few in game videos on past games, big hits, big TD’s) is compelling as well. I’m not talking about any advertisements, Kiss-Cam’s, fireworks, or rock and rap music, but something done in line with the Notre Dame way of doing things. Is it not possible to add some modern ammenities to the stadium and have it be cutting edge, do it different than anyone else, and preserve the traditionally feel of the gameday experience?

I’d also add a very quiet, sometimes life-less and disinterested crowd in one of the largest football stadiums in America as another compelling reason to spice things up a little bit, and engage fans more.

Maybe biggest of all, is the cultural atmosphere combined with the personal technological advances that we see inside the stadium each Saturday. There’s a significant portion of the older generation that is very quiet and subdued, and doesn’t want things to change. There’s another significant portion of the younger generation (perhaps larger in total numbers) that may be louder, or might be less interested in the "Notre Dame Experience" but nonetheless are playing with their cell phones, having non-football conversations, and seemingly detached from the highs and lows of the game.

Those two things combined have created an atmosphere that is the exact opposite of the loud home-field advantage most other big time schools enjoy. In the future, fans will be able to enjoy all of the ammenities that modern technology provides in the form of replays, commentary, stats, etc. except instead of a small group that we see now it will be thousands upon thousands.

The irony is that the old guard traditionalists are against a video screen or replays because it "takes away from the game" or "distracts people from the experience" but in ten years there could be tens of thousands of people distracted from the game because they are too busy looking down at their iPhone or iPad watching replays and feasting on other information that they want or need. Which is worse?

That is a compelling reason in my view to ENGAGE fans with a video board and get them invested in watching what Notre Dame wants them to watch. If the university refuses to take control of this situation, it risks the possibility of the stale and non-intimidating atmosphere getting much worse further down the road. Because it has to be better for everyone involved if fans are watching a video of a Tom Zbikowski punt return touchdown while the band plays during a commercial, thereby keeping the crowd pumped up, as opposed to sitting there in relative silence, checking texts on their phone, talking about a recent visit to the mall, or whatever.

Another compelling reason, is that the players LOVE it.

You may not agree with some of these ideas, I may not agree with someone else’s ideas for changes in the stadium, but the main point is that there should at least be a dialogue about things like this. There are some ridiculous ideas in my opinion from people who want changes, but I am often more frustrated with those who say no to changes just for the sake of saying no and squash any dialogue about it. Not that there aren’t valid reasons to keep the stadium the way it is, because there certainly are, but like the author said here, too often we are imprisoned by the great tradition at Notre Dame.

There are many great traditions I love about Notre Dame, and let’s be real, there are a TON of them. But I often think we make things harder on ourselves by clinging to every single little tradition and refusing to look at the future, or new things, or anything that might make life a little easier for the Irish.

We should not be ending this dicussion, but asking ourselves if the reasons are truly compelling enough to make changes."

A video board doesn’t necessarily have to result in advertisements in the stadium, nor does it have to result in the cheesy “kiss cam” like features.
Sure, Ads would help pay for a videoboard, but its not like a Notre Dame donor wouldn’t be willing to throw down some spare change. I think a video board would make the viewing experience so much better in the stadium. The lack of replays causes students to try to watch on their iphones during the game, or constantly check their Twitter to see if the player had both feet in with possession. A simple video board w/o advertisements could make a much more enjoyable viewing experience and help bring some life to the stadium. We can all remember about the comments the players and even Kelly were making after the Yankee stadium game vs. Army…THey loved the massive screen. (Im not suggesting ND gets a video board to that extent).
I think ND should follow the lead of the other highly traditional college football school, Michigan, and install a simple videoboard.

Michigan’s turf field is a whole other topic….I don’t see why ND stadium would lose the integrity of its tradition with one as long as you had no logo and kept the slashes in the end zone. The turf is a coaches decision, I don’t think players mind playing on grass as long as it is in great condition (which wasn’t the case some years in the Weis era).

Eric —

I completely agree with you. Player safety may be the ultimate driver to changing the playing surface to a hybrid system, but I don’t see a change to 100% field turf anytime in the future.

On the replay boards (I will use that term in place of jumbotron), I think it will be more difficult to get buy-in across the board, but I do agree that it is needed. There are just way too many lulls in the action to keep the crowd 100% engaged all the time. I think there is a tasteful way to integrate it into the stadium that doesn’t detract from the experience, and so long as it avoids the destractions (kiss cam and the like) and its focus is on replays/highlights and the like, it would be a great addition. If anyone has been to Michigan Stadium, that is basically how they use their video boards.

We could spend a ton of time on the general attitude of the crowd during home games. Basically, I will equate it to the envirnoment at Wrigley Field over the last 10 years (a place to be seen where there just so happens to be a sporting event) or better yet a playoff baseball crowd atmosphere (where the true fans can’t afford the seats and the TV coverage pans from celeb to celeb). You have to give the students some credit that they try to make up for the other 60K+ ND fans (when accounting for the allotment of tickets to the opposing team) general disengagement from the game. From my experience, most fans are just trying to look up scores to other games or get any information about injuries and such during the breaks in action. In any case, I am not sure how any of these changes are any different than some of the old farts wearing their radio earphones to get the play-by-play from WestwoodOne.

As far as the internet community is concerned, I’m grateful that most of the knuckle-dragging fire-worshipers (thanks, MotS) are contained on NDNation. There are far more reasonable places to have discussions like this one— namely here and IrishEnvy.

The tensions such discussions generate can be very productive. Those in favor of change generally have the burden of proof, so they’re forced to make a compelling case. But traditionalists also have to look at what it is they’re seeking to conserve and articulate why that’s superior to the changes on offer.

All too often, ND’s traditionalists refuse go even that far; the inquiry goes no farther than, “Well that’s just not ND,” or some wild worst-case-scenario for which no one has ever argued.

I’d like to think that most of the regular posters on this blog know the true value of ND’s traditions, and that most of the popular proposed changes can be implemented without harming those traditions at all.

Before breaking into song from Fiddler on the Roof, one word – FreekBass.

Uniforms and turf are far down the list of sacrosanct traditions that define Notre Dame. Maybe not even on it. I loved your article on the history of ND’s uniforms. We have redesigned facilities, admitted women!, scheduled Michigan, and installed lights, embracing night games. "If you haven’t been back to Notre Dame in a while, you may be surprised at the changes. " was the theme of the calls I got to attend a recent reunion. Whatever happened to Vagina Monologues? Change can be a bitch.

Just don’t mess with the Dome, Victory March, the Player walk, Bond Hall concerts, bookstore basketball, Bengal Bouts, or Alma Mater.

I would advocate admission of more qualified legacy students and believe our women sports’ pioneers need to be honored.

Thanks for the comments everybody.

I keep going back and forth on the video board issue. It’s weird because the more time I spend away from campus and away from ND Stadium, the more I find myself slowly slipping back into the feeling that we should keep the minimalist old-school approach.

Yet, whenever I’m back and watch a game I think I feel like the atmosphere that so many hold dear is severely overstated, and I find myself wishing things were different.

FieldTurf is more important in the here and now, that is unless the technological advances that I’ve warned about are accelerated quickly in the next couple of years (meaning we have to take steps to engage fans with a video board).

We’ll probably see a hybrid surface, and if I had to bet I think there will be changes after this upcoming 2011 season. Unless, by some miracle the field stays in great shape, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

Luckily, the season is favorable for the survival of the grass. Two home games in early September sandwiched between the road game at Michigan should keep the bluegrass in good shape.

The field will have 20 full days to heal before the Irish are back home against Air Force on October 8th. But despite a bye week following the game with the Falcons, the field will be tested with three home games in four weeks during October. That’s usually when things tend to get messy, particularly if it rains some on Friday or during the game.

Good point Whiskeyjack.

I get a kick out of reading all of the comments we see on subjects like this all across the message board universe. I don’t tend to let it upset me when I see opinions that I think are wrong, more often I think it’s funny.

But the one thing I do hate is what you’ve described…the notion that some can just hide behind tradition and never really explain why they feel the way they do.

Someday we’ll get a poll that will dive into all of these issues.

Michael,

“We are N-D. We are Notre Dame!”

Now, look what you did!!

I think we’re pretty similar in how we feel about the traditions, although I’m probably a little more liberal with them.

There should be a “Do Not Touch List” which would cover the things you mentioned. In reality there’s probably about a dozen major traditions at Notre Dame that I think should safely make this list and should never change.

I think one of the big problems is that a lot of people have that list close to 50 or more…which is pretty crazy.

Underneath that should be the “Strong Traditions,” ones which just didn’t make the cut into hallowed status, but there needs to be major research, solid reasoning, etc. on why they should be changed, if they are to be.

I think the stadium atmosphere is in this category, although I know thousands would disagree and put it in the pantheon.

Under that we could have “Loose Traditions,” things that are either relatively new or easily replaced with clearly better ideas. I think the playing surface was probably at one point in the 2nd division if you will, but has dropped down here.

See how fun this could be! The traditions, except for a handful (mostly the top dogs) would move around over the years.

Where does the Play Like a Champion Sign Today sign go?

Probably not on the Do Not Touch List, right?

Is it a strong tradition? Fairly loose because it’s relatively modern? There could be some very interesting debates here.

My favorite uniform is the ND uniform with a BCS Bowl game patch on it .
And my favorite tradition is beating Navy …. Time to get back to traditions!

Being 70 and an Irish fan forever, I believie in all the old traditions and support any new tradition that comes along,,,,different generations should have their own traditions to go along with the past.

I cant wait to get that retro jersey…its awesome….going to get it with a #3 for Ralph Guglielmi. I think next year we should have a retro uniform game with USC, and the next year with Michigan State, then Navy…and so on. Wouldnt bother me at all to see the green jersey be the standard home game jersey.

I’ve been a supporter of the traditional grass playing surface forever…but…..times change, The Irish are no longer the grind it out and plod along team of ages ago…now its speed and the speed players are coming to ND…lets give tham an advantage with the artificlal playing surface……just please dont make it an obnoxious color.

Night games….awesome…..lets not wait another 20 years to have another Irish home game at night…..should have one every year. Players like it, recruits like it, national exposure in prime time….so why not.

The old traditions are great and new traditions can become just as great.

GO IRISH…its going to be a hell-of-a good year.

Bill,

I like your style. Great comments!

The golden domed helmuts and classic ND monogram are the most recognized icons in college football. Why these would be so recklessly jettisoned is beyond me. This is not about clinging to tradition; traditions in style endure because they are timeless classics, not because “we’ve always done it that way.” Redo the Yankee uniform without the NY monogram and pinstripes and see what you get.

That said ND will pummel Michigan even if ND shows up in togas. Go Irish!!

Bob,

I’m trying to understand what you mean. Where are the gold helmets and monogram being jettisoned? Just for the one throwback game, you mean? I think we’ll be okay going back to the old look for the rest of the season.

Plus, you make the comparison to the Yankees, but Notre Dame is not like that.

Alabama? Penn State?

Absolutely…those programs have worn basically the exact same uniforms, just like the Yankees, for decades and decades and decades.

Notre Dame is more like the Phillies.