Pre-Spring Depth Chart: Quarterback
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 22, 2011 12:45 PM EST
Email
PrintWe’re saving the best for last as the final position group to be dealt with on offense is the most controversial, exciting, and fascinating.
If you’ve missed any of the other positions click on the names below and have a ball.
*Denotes fifth year eligibility
Dayne Crist, Senior*
Tommy Rees, Sophomore
Andrew Hendrix, Sophomore*
Everett Golson, Freshman
The Fat Has Been Trimmed Away
A week ago there were six bodies and a crowded depth chart that needed some serious relief. Heading into spring ball the roster has been trimmed down to four players and an intense battle will begin with March practices.
Now, quarterback looks like a real nice position group numbers-wise with a lot of different options for the coaching staff to choose from.
Is it possible that this is the deepest and most talented group of Irish signal callers in a decade or two?
There’s now room to comfortably add another recruit in the 2012 class and possibly two more if Crist does not come back for a fifth year.
There’s also plenty of eligibility left with this group as Golson and Hendrix each have four full years, Rees with three and Crist with two years remaining.
How Much Will Experience Matter?
Out of the gate, Crist and Rees should have the upper hand in this battle because they have game experience, have felt the pressure of being quarterback at Notre Dame and have ran out on to the field with all those crazy expectations flooding their mind.
Will the coaches be comfortable to start someone without experience?
From a fan perspective it is hard to come to grips with another inexperienced player under center for the 2011 season opener, and it will definitely cause a lot apprehension if Hendrix or Golson take the reigns this fall.
That kind of anxiety is normal, but we can probably trust the coaching staff to put the best player on the field even if he isn’t experienced.
A big part of the worry is that the offense will have to "start over" to a certain extent with a fresh quarterback and that there won’t be the step forward that was hoped for in year two of the Kelly Era.
However, the two inexperienced quarterbacks who could take over are the players who are most suited for the offense and much more likely to make the unit more productive and dangerous because of their running abilities.
So even if there are some growing pains and other inconsistencies we saw last year because of inexperience, those mistakes could be offset by the quarterbacks athleticism and running ability, opening a whole new dimension for the offense.
Nothing is as Good or Bad as It Seems
Lou Holtz used this quote all the time and I think it rings true when we’re talking about the play of Dayne Crist and Tommy Rees last year.
There’s a vocal opinion that since Rees won his first four starts, ended the losing streak against USC, ended the losing streak against ranked teams, and played his best game of the season in the bowl game, that he is the man to beat.
Conversely, there is also a vocal opinion that feels Crist wasn’t learning the offense, looked uncomfortable and lost in quite a few games, and wasn’t progressing as the season went on. It also doesn’t help that Crist’s worst game of his career occurred in his last full start either.
I think the reality is somewhere in between, in that Rees isn’t nearly as good as his 4-0 record as a starter indicates, and Crist wasn’t as bad as his starting record indicates either.
Rees performed very well given the circumstances, his inexperience, and age. At times he looked remarkably calm and comfortable, showed a lot of toughness and determination, and made some big plays when he was asked to.
Will Tommy Rees continue his 4-0 record as a starter?
Yet, there were times when Rees looked a little bit out of his league, struggled with turnovers, and his lack of arm strength was readily apparent.
Crist too had his moments where he looked confused in the offense, missed relatively easy throws, and couldn’t move the team down the field. But those troubles were offset by Crist being the main catalyst on offense while he was healthy, sparking a passing game that was close to dominant in parts of contests, and the fact that he was on pace for a rather successful first year statistically as a starter at Notre Dame.
In the grand scheme of things, neither quarterback played outstanding, but both played pretty well given the circumstances surrounding each of them.
Rees is a Winner---Crist Isn’t? (Let’s Talk Intangibles!)
We’ve heard since the end of the season that "Rees is a winner," that "he just has IT and is a gamer," and that "Rees just wins and that is good enough for me!"
I’d argue that Rees probably does have a lot of intangibles, maybe even more than Dayne Crist, but we have to balance this discussion with other tangible factors and not just simplistic arguments such as, "I feel like Rees was in better control of the offense."
As it stands, Rees is the least mobile and possesses the weakest arm of the four quarterbacks on the roster. Is he truly full of so many winning intangibles that he will be able to win the starting job over the spring and fall?
See, the thing with this intangible discussion is that 1.) It is difficult for coaches to measure that during practice and 2.) I didn’t see enough playmaking from Rees to be confident that his intangibles will continue to trump his physical limitations.
It’s different if a young quarterback doesn’t have the strongest arm, isn’t particularly fast, wasn’t highly regarded out of high school, but then comes in and simply makes plays and shows the recruiting services were way off in their assessment. It’s different if a quarterback proves the doubters wrong with clutch throws, great stats and victories that can be directly attributed to his performance.
In other words, a "wow" factor has to be in involved at some point (think Matt Barkley's 380 yard performance at Notre Dame as a true freshman---you just knew he would be the quarterback at USC for four years and be tough to beat).
It would be different if the offense had come out looking good against Utah or if Rees hadn’t of played poorly at USC but instead played well and drove the team down the field with half a dozen completions and sealed the victory with a beautiful touchdown pass.
But that didn’t really happen with Rees.
He managed the games well, particularly for a freshman, but there were a whole list of other factors that led to the team winning (great defense, improved running game, etc.) and it is simply imprudent to think that these factors happened specifically because Rees was quarterback and not Crist.
I’m not saying Rees will never play again or that he doesn’t have a lot of intangibles that could maybe lead him to the starting job, but people have to realize that he will have to be lights out as a passer and decision maker in practice to make up for his shortcomings in the talent (arm strength, size, mobility) department.
You could argue that it’s not Rees’ fault that he was a freshman, that the playbook was shrunk down, that he wasn’t asked to win games with his arm, and that he will improve as he gets older.
But my point is there was never enough evidence during the last five games of the season to prove Rees is going to continue winning football games, be a multi-year starter, and ultimately overcome his physical limitations.
This shouldn’t belittle Rees’ accomplishments so far because he does deserve a lot of praise, but pinning hopes largely on intangibles is a bigger leap of faith then believing one of the other quarterbacks will take over.
Will Mobility be a Crucial or Determining Factor?
In the short-term I don’t believe mobility will be a determining factor for the starting position, but it will give Hendrix and Golson a small edge in the spring and certainly a big advantage beyond 2011.
Of course being able to pull the ball down on option read plays is a big part of this advantage, but it’s also about moving around in the pocket and escaping defenders who have broken into the backfield as well.
Does mobility give Andrew Hendrix an edge in the competition?
Whichever quarterback can buy time with his feet and throw the ball down field with success will have an advantage going into the season opener. This ability to buy time is almost always something Brian Kelly talks about when discussing the quarterbacks, so it is a big deal to him and the rest of the coaching staff.
Real Talk---Look at the Stats
It’s not this simple, but in many ways Crist offers a more explosive and pass-happy option under center, whereas Rees will offer a more conservative game-manager type of option.
It seems like an easy decision to go with the more explosive option, but remember that Brian Kelly’s offense is essentially a ball control passing offense. That means a great majority of the throws will be in the short-to-medium range and someone like Rees who can get the ball out quickly, accurately and move the chains is a valued commodity.
Still, there is no denying the difference in the way the passing offense produced in 2010 when Crist was the quarterback.
Had he been healthy for the entire Michigan game, Notre Dame would have averaged close to 300 yards per game through the air with Crist at quarterback. During the last five games of the season with Rees, the passing game production dropped down to 205 yards per game.
Additionally, Crist threw for more yards than any other opponent in 2010 against Michigan State and he threw for the second most against Stanford, both the highest ranked teams the Irish played all season. Crist threw for over 300 yards three times (not including a 299 yard performance) in eight starts and always threw for at least 200 yards in every start (Tulsa obviously not included).
Crist was better in 2010 than most people remember.
Rees, although more accurate in completion percentage (by 1.8 percent), only threw for 300 yards once (against Tulsa who gave up an average of 319 passing yards per game---six other teams threw for more yards than Notre Dame against the Golden Hurricane), threw for under 200 yards twice in five games, and never more than 214 yards in four out of the five games.
Of course, Crist was relied upon to throw the ball a lot more often (14 more attempts per game) and Rees was able to rely on the running game to move the offense, so what do you take away from the fact that the team passed less and won more with Rees?
Does that mean Rees was better?
Does it mean Crist wasn’t productive enough?
Does it mean there are discernable leadership differences?
Was it simply better coaching and game planning?
I have no doubt that many wish to see an offense that runs the ball more and doesn’t need to rely on nearly 33 passing attempts per game to win, but at the same time, Crist threw for a lot more yards and was only intercepted once every 42 attempts, compared to Rees throwing a pick every 20.5 attempts.
Moreover, Rees was aided by a better ground game and a vastly improved defense. With Rees in the team averaged almost 40 more yards per game on the ground, and the running game accounted for 43.5 percent of the total offense.
Crist got much less help with 112.1 rushing yards per game and only 28.5 percent of the total offense coming on the ground. Crist had one game where the rushing offense was over 40 percent of total offense (Purdue 42.7 percent), while Rees had four out his five games top 40 percent, including three over 49 percent.
Now imagine Crist’s productivity and ball security with the running game (and defense) Rees had late in the season.
All of this just reinforces the belief that the TEAM stepped up and was responsible for the winning streak. We can try and credit Rees for the team’s improvements, but then you have to start talking about these vague intangibles that can’t be proved or disproved and that’s such a dead end argument.
That doesn’t mean Rees doesn’t deserve any credit, because he surely does, but how do you explain that the running game improved with a virtually immobile quarterback in a read-option system, and that the team won with far less production and more turnovers in the passing game?
What’s the Lineup Going to Look Like?
For obvious reasons, this is such a difficult question to answer. There are so many issues that need to be resolved by next September that any guess right now could be entirely wrong by the time the season kicks off.
Will Crist be healthy enough to contribute in the spring? Will he ever stay healthy during the season?
How much will Rees improve from year one to two?
Does Hendrix shine now that he has had a full year of the system under his belt?
And does Golson’s skill set immediately place him into the two-deep even though he’s a freshman?
I feel like Crist is being undervalued at this point and if you go back and watch the film from September and October, I think you’ll see that he played a lot better than you remember. With his arm strength the offense is more wide open and there were times when Crist was simply in the zone and playing at a very high level.
He does come with some concerns, mainly: injuries, lack of consistency, and a lack of accuracy.
The injury situation is just something we’ll have to deal with and see how it develops. I wouldn’t write Crist off because of it, but it is still a pretty big concern at this point.
His consistency and lack of accuracy, or more precisely, his inability to complete the easier throws on the field, has to immediately improve or else there may be no use having a strong-armed quarterback that lacks the mobility the coaches crave.
Before spring practice starts, Tommy Rees has a big advantage in this competition because of his quick release and ability to be spot on with this short-to-intermediate throws, especially in comparison to Crist.
Whereas Crist would sail a couple balls, throw them into the dirt on a few occasions, or look erratic on screen passes, Rees was generally perfect with these same kinds of throws.
I also liked how Rees handled the entire process of coming in at the worst time of the season and playing cool, calm and collected. Like I said before, he may very well have a ton of intangibles and the savvy to lead Notre Dame to victory.
However, I just don’t think the skill level and talent is there to be able to fend off three other highly talented quarterbacks, even with the experience of winning the final four games of the season and granted room for improvement.
The two wildcards are Andrew Hendrix and Everett Golson.
With or without a healthy Crist, it seems as if Hendrix will have a very good shot at cracking the two deep or possibly even starting. There might have to be a big leap of faith for fans because he’s never taken a snap in college, but you have to trust the reviews the coaching staff have given and that he’s a better fit for the offense than either Crist or Rees.
Hendrix has similar size to Crist, has a great arm (Kelly: "Quick release, one of the best arms I’ve ever seen.") and is much more mobile than anyone who played last year. He’s still an unknown, but you have to think his shot is pretty good this offseason.
Initially, most thought Golson was headed for a redshirt, but now we might have to reconsider that notion.
Does Everett Golson force his way on to the field in 2011?
He’s an early enrollee who will get some first team reps in the spring per Brian Kelly. He’s the most athletic quarterback on the roster and a perfect fit for the offense. Heck, he might even be the best pure passer out of the four quarterbacks as well.
Since he’s undersized and weighs 180 pounds (if he’s lucky), a redshirt year probably couldn’t hurt, but what happens if he’s one of the best quarterbacks in practice? What if he’s THE best?
Expecting Golson to start (no matter how talented he is) seems like a big stretch, but the conversation may likely move quickly toward whether he ends up as the backup, has some packages installed for him, or ultimately stays on the sidelines in 2011.
Since I believe Hendrix and Golson are Notre Dame’s long-term answers at the quarterback position, holding the freshman out and staggering their eligibility seems like the sensible thing to do. But Golson’s skill-set and playmaking ability might prevent that from happening.
My guess for opening day against USF is:
1. Crist
2. Hendrix
3. Rees
4. Golson
I’m going to assume that Golson eventually redshirts and that the coaches will take a long and hard look at him during the spring and fall, but deem it wise to put more weight on the South Carolinian and give him a full year of experience in the system before seeing the field.
Rees should fall into a battle for the backup spot, settling in at the number three position but going no higher than number two by September.
I could see a scenario where Rees starts out next season as the backup only later to be passed by Hendrix, but I think Hendrix will force his way into the two-deep by August. With Hendrix still a relatively unknown commodity and with a freshman like Golson coming up behind with "the future" tag on him, Hendrix could be a serious transfer candidate if he’s not in the two-deep at some point in 2011.
If Crist is cleared for non-contact practice by spring then his skill, experience, and leadership should earn him the starting job against USF. If he’s not healthy enough to participate in some or all of spring practice then this depth chart could shift significantly, but with Crist on the field from late March and into April the odds are greatly in his favor.
There could be two dozen more scenarios to discuss over the next seven months but this is how I see it shaking out right now before the spring.
Dayne Crist still has the most to offer and if he’s healthy it should be his job to lose.
Andrew Hendrix has a year in the system and the skill and measurables to be a very good quarterback at the college level. With the praise he has received from the coaching staff I like his chances to compete and get an opportunity to start if Crist is unable to play or falters during the season.
Tommy Rees will fall to third on the depth chart, but is still very much in the mix to see the field with Crist’s injury concerns and an untested Hendrix ahead of him.
Since Golson is in for spring and was Kelly’s first quarterback recruited for this system, his path through the depth chart may be accelerated as a true freshman. However, if there weren’t three older options at quarterback I could see Kelly using Golson in a Tebow-like role with some specific packages created to utilize his mobility, but until that kind of role is announced or seen on the field, I believe Kelly will stick with one quarterback and Golson should redshirt.
One more month until spring practice begins!
39 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Eric, a very succinct breakdown of the Crist – Rees debate. I too believe Dayne will be the starter come fall, provided he is mostly healthy in the spring. If he is not, all bets are off.
How much Rees progresses physically will be interesting. How much added arm strength and pure physicality can he achieve? Can he make up enough of the significant difference the other QBs have, to get in the starting mix? He doesn’t have to be their equal in these regards but, he needs to close the gap.
If Hendrix does actually possess the mobility that we hear about, I see him in the #2 spot. If so I don’t think Golson sees the field this year either. If Hendrix does not then, it’s wide open for that #2 spot. If Golson get’s a “special package” he will be the #2.
Again if Crist is not able to go in the spring, it’s anybody’s guess as to how this turns out.
by TLNDMA on Feb 22, 2011 1:35 PM EST reply actions
Thanks TLNDMA. You’re right…without Crist it could get very chaotic. Even if he goes down early with injury or something like that these types of discussions could be going on well into next season.
I’m excited to see Hendrix and Golson do some work.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 22, 2011 2:07 PM EST reply actions
There’s so much to discuss here…
Tommy’s first two victories came against Utah and Army, games in which neither opponent scored a TD. Repeat; neither opponent scored a TD. Are we really going to give Tommy Intangible the credit for that? 6 points allowed in those two games combined, and it’s all Tommy’s doing, right?
Rees was horrible against USC, absolutely horrible. If ‘ol Tommy Intangible hadn’t turned the ball over, USC might not have scored a single point. He turned it over four times in USC territory; to say Notre Dame was fortunate to win that game is an understatement. It took a heroic effort from the defense and Robert Hughes to win that game. But I suppose that was all Tommy’s doing as well.
I don’t want to denigrate Rees that much, because he was a true freshman and all. But if there really are people out there who think he’s great because he went 4-0 (how is it the Tulsa game doesn’t go on his record? He played 3/4 of it), they need their head examined. He has “great intangibles,” if by that you mean the defense played great and the running game improved. Tommy himself often did more hamr than good, with his turnovers against USC and an open-drive INT against Army. He did play well against Miami, but let’s not forget that Miami QBs threw 4 INTs in the first half.
I really hope that Crist is working on his short-range game this off-season. If he could just complete the easy throws, he’d be the obvious top QB on the roster. But his inconsistency in throwing short passes will continue to slow down this offense that relies on those throws to keep the offense on schedule. There’s no doubt that Rees throws a more accurate, catchable ball on short throws than Crist does, and that needs to change. There’s no reason for a talented player like Crist to struggle as much as he does sometimes with his short range accuracy.
I’m not going to pretend to know much about Hendrix and Golson, so I’ll trust the coaches on their evaluation. My guess is that Crist and Rees are 1 and 2 on opening day. Crist is the best option on the roster due to his talent and experience. Rees just isn’t talented enough to be counted on as a full-time starter. When I look at him, I see Matt Lovecchio, another guy who “won” a bunch of games as a freshman, when in reality it was the team around him doing the heavy lifting. Not to mention the offense has to be scaled back when he’s in the game, with more of an emphasis on power running. Hendrix and Golson might be the best fit for this offense, but until Crist leaves I don’t see either of them starting ahead of him. They certainly could beat out Rees, however.
by Chris on Feb 22, 2011 2:15 PM EST reply actions
In before the “Tommy Intangible” (that’s good, Chris) crew starts leaving indignant posts.
I agree with Eric’s priority: Crist > Hendrix > Rees > Golson. If Rees makes good progress in the off-season, maybe he hangs on to the #2 over Hendrix, in which case a transfer seems all but guaranteed.
I really hope Golson redshirts; even if he turns out to be Football Jesus, I’ll be a nervous wreck every time our 180 lb. QB (soaking wet) gets hit. Spreading out eligibility is key.
I’ll go one better. I predict Crist hangs on to the starting job until he gets clipped by another injury, after which Hendrix steps in. Not a terribly courageous prediction given how his last two seasons ended, but if and when it happens, a lot of this controversy evaporates.
by Whiskeyjack on Feb 22, 2011 2:33 PM EST reply actions
Are we all agreed that, the QB situation this year is in way better shape than last year? After watching what this team did last season, when Crist went down, shouldn’t we all feel confident that Kelly will put the right guy in the starter’s role? I may be antsy to find out who that is but, I’m not worried about success at the position.
by TLNDMA on Feb 22, 2011 3:17 PM EST reply actions
Chris,
I agree that Tommy’s performance wasn’t that great. In fact, I had to re-write a large portion of this just so it didn’t look like I was piling on Rees too much. As it is, I think it’s fair to say he didn’t play well at times, but at others he did. But yes, I would agree with most of your sentiments on him.
I too wish Crist could improve his short game passing. He doesn’t seem to have that natural arm where throws like screens and slants are automatic. He struggled when moving out of the pocket too.
The question we might ask is when Crist will leave…that’s another story.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 22, 2011 3:43 PM EST reply actions
Whiskeyjack,
We think alike. I just can’t see Kelly playing Golson this year, unless he’s so incredibly and fantastically amazing in practice. Staggering the eligibility is key…totally spot on.
I also think Crist starting and then getting hurt with Hendrix coming in is a very likely scenario. If I got into what will/could happen during the season I would say that is most likely if there is a position switch at QB.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 22, 2011 3:46 PM EST reply actions
TLNDMA,
No doubt the QB position is in better shape, and it’s great that Kelly has all this talent, or perceived talent, to work with. In the end it should make the team that much better.
But I do worry (about as much as a ND blogger should) about where the chips will fall. I think Crist will start, but what if he gets injured again? It’s great we have talent behind him, but it’s never great to switch QB’s during the season, or throw someone in there who hasn’t started yet (Hendrix). I have high hopes for Hendrix but this is a position where only one guy is going to be THE guy, and it just seems like someone will get screwed.
That’s basically why I think Golson should RS. If he doesn’t I don’t see how him and Hendrix are going to co-exist in the same class. Heck, I don’t see how they will even a year apart. It’s all about winning but one of these guys probably isn’t going to play a whole lot and I wonder who it will be.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 22, 2011 3:52 PM EST reply actions
I guess I will limit my posts on the subject to this site (and not B/R) so I don’t get articles aimed at why I am so wrong…
First—Eric, I couldn’t agree with you more on basically every point.
Rees is a luxury (I repeat luxury) to have as a coach and a fan—simply because he is a proven commodity. He is a good game manager with great accuracy. One thing that has been missing on the Tommy Intangable arguement is that he already had a full offseason of strength and conditioning under Longo. I think we basically saw the finished product last fall (minus a few more pounds of muscle, but that’s about it).
I’ve said it before and will say it again—adversity elicits traits that would otherwise remain dormant (thanks again Ara). The TEAM won four straight to finish the year. Enough said.
Fortunately for Dayne, I think the thing he will most easily be able to work on (and the easiest to work on) are the short to intermediate passes. I expect big improvements in that department this fall. I don’t think he sees any contact until the fall though. And he will be sporting some extra equipment (two knee braces). The kid is more mobile than most give him credit for. At this point, I think he is done after 2011 even with a year of eligibility left. Call it a hunch, but if he gets hurt BK probably doesn’t want to use a scholly and if he has a good year he goes pro. Does anyone else see a third option?
I don’t think you could be any more on the money about Hendrix. Probably the best overall skill-set to succeed in BK’s offense (size, mobility, arm strength, accuracy). He should be the #2 guy in the fall and see some quality minutes early on (mop up duty hopefully). He ran a run-first offense in high school, so the read-option might come a bit more naturally than some think.
Golson is an interesting kid. I agree on the RS. I would be super-pumped about the kid if he were a bit taller, but still his HS numbers are sick and height doesn’t matter as much in college as in the NFL. I would imagine he would be used a bit more like Vick (roll out, deep drops, etc) to allow for throwing lanes and sight lines.
All that is left to discuss is recruiting. Two QBs in the 2012 class? I can see it even with the limited numbers. One has to be versitaile enough to change positions though. I think Keil and Miles would be high on my list if I were BK. Mauk might be waiting to see what happens before committing, but he is a bit under-rated by the scouts so far.
by Jim Miesle on Feb 22, 2011 4:48 PM EST reply actions
Jim,
Nice subtle jab there for that article about you! Ha!
I agree about Rees. I keep hearing that Longo can work on his arm strength and speed…but there will only be miniscule improvements in those areas over his career. Pretty much wherever you’re at in those departments at 17 or 18 is where you’ll be at 20 years old. Rees can add weight but he’ll always be slow-footed and not have great arm strength.
I don’t see Crist in the NFL, at least not as a top selection in the first 3 or 4 rounds. If he has a big year, let’s be kind and say 40 TD’s and 10 INT’s…I don’t think he’s proven enough to take him before the 3rd with his injury concerns. I do think it’s likely he leaves and doesn’t come back and either grinds it out on an NFL roster for a few years or simply moves on in life. I’m still curious to see if he really plays well and, God willing, he stays healthy and the team goes something like 11-2…would there be pressure from coaches, fans, etc. for him to come back and win a title? That’s another aspect to think about, right?
I’m super high on Hendrix…I haven’t really hidden that fact much over the past year. I’m confident that Golson will be a great player, but I really don’t want to see Hendrix leave if he’s not getting playing time soon. It’s a big concern for me…I think he has a ton of tools to be great under Kelly.
Golson’s size is slightly concerning, but not a big deal in the spread. He’s going to look funny amongst all those massive linemen and tight ends though!!
My early favorite for a 2012 QB is Kiel….love his size and how he runs the read option. He has great feet and feel for that play and is sneaky quick for a big guy. Obviously not in the same zip code, but very Cam Newton-ish in that regard.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 22, 2011 5:14 PM EST reply actions
Jim M., I don’t see Crist leaving unless, he is hurt again or he does not perform well. If he starts and has a good year, he will be back.
by TLNDMA on Feb 23, 2011 6:06 AM EST reply actions
it seems from alot of irishfans i know, that they feel Rees is the #1 guy. lol but i knew from the get-go they were saving Hendrix’s eligibility. he was one of CBK’s top targets and got him. I def. think Golson is the future of this team- youtube clips are insane( unless the likes of Kiel/Mauk show up next season) that’ll be a great problem to have. Rees didnt do anything spectacular in any of the games. SC win was all thanks to ND’s defense
as for Crist, he may not be a D1 QB. his ability to stay healthy is a huge question mark, coming out of HS he was the #3 QB, but will eventually be passed up by one of these three QBs.
by chris on Feb 23, 2011 6:25 AM EST reply actions
Just a sneak peak into the 2012 draft QB class:
Andrew Luck
Terrell Pryor
Brandon Weeden
Nick Foles
Kirk Cousins
Not seeing much here other than Luck. Injuries will definitely be the question mark with Crist, but if he says healthy, I think he will have a better season statistically than everyone on that list. Just look at Blaine Gabbert’s numbers from this year—62%, 2752 yds, 15 TD, 7 INT. By comparison, Dayne was 59%, 2033 yds, 15 TD, 7 INT, and he only played in 7.5 games.
As far as Dayne not being a D1 QB—seriously?
Kiel would be #1 on my list for all those reasons Eric and the bloodlines/ties can’t hurt either. If we don’t land one of these kids by June/July, then I will start to worry, but something tells me one will be on board after the spring game.
by Jim Miesle on Feb 23, 2011 8:33 AM EST reply actions
Chris,
As far as talent, potential, and system fit I’d go like this…
Golson>Kiel>Mauk
It’ll probably be pretty difficult for any 2012 guys to pass Golson, that’s just my opinion though.
I don’t think it’s fair to say that Crist isn’t a D-1 QB, especially if you’re just basing it on injuries. He showed some flashes of great play last year and he was learning a new system and starting for the first time. For all we know he could blow up in 2011…he certainly has a lot of talent.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 23, 2011 8:47 AM EST reply actions
Jim,
Can we add Kellen Moore, Dan Persa, Landry Jones, Robert Griffin III, and Matt Barkley to that list?
I’d argue that Crist is better, or has more potential than some of these players, but I’d be shocked if he broke into the top five QB’s. And that’s with him having a healthy and monster year too. I’m sure the NFL will fall in love with his size and arm, but the health concerns will shy teams away and the fact that he’d only have played about 19 games in his college career.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 23, 2011 8:51 AM EST reply actions
I have yet to see a ND QB who consistently is able to lead the receiver on crossing routes. Their hesitation slows down the receiver and results in lesser gain on plays. Until that happens the outside will never open up. If I can see it so can the scouts of the opposition.
I don’t care who the QB is, I just want him to be able to throw that pass correctly.
by Tom on Feb 23, 2011 9:08 AM EST reply actions
I trust BK to make the right choice. I have no wisdom to contribute to this discussion, I’m just here to tell all you posters thanks – I enjoy your posts and there are 191 days until the season starts, and it’s gonna be something to watch!
by terry on Feb 23, 2011 10:33 AM EST reply actions
Eric —
Thanks for the additions to the list. I just looked at the top 5 for 2012 to get a quick read. Do you think Barkley leaves? It is an interesting question. Based on Sam Bradford’s early success, Landry Jones would be high on the list as well. Moore, Griffin and Persa would be more of a reach in the draft than Crist if he stays healthy. Do I think he plays himself into a first round pick? No. Could he be a second to third rounder? Sure.
by Jim Miesle on Feb 23, 2011 10:44 AM EST reply actions
Eric, good article, but I believe you forgot the main reason that ND won while Rees was the QB. DEFENSE! The defense woke up and dominated those final games. We didn’t have that while Crist was the QB. I believe we won, not becuase of Rees – (by the way he had 4 turnovers in the USC game), but because the defense shut down the opposing offenses. Looking at the USC game, handing off to Woods and Hughes, wasn’t a tough chore. Too bad Crist wasn’t in that situation w/ the defense playing at that high level. I don’t see greatness in Rees, although he possibly can be a steady guy at the helm may-be at some point, but Crist’s upside is much more if he figures things out. Hendrix and Golston? We’ll see. On paper etc…, they look to be better in the future (at some point) than the other 2.
by Denny on Feb 23, 2011 11:24 AM EST reply actions
Denny,
The defense stepping up and dominating to end the season should have been so obvious that I just mentioned it a few times here. Really no need to get into it anymore than need be when anyone who watched the games knew the defense got about 648 times better.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 23, 2011 11:39 AM EST reply actions
I agree with the line up for the opener. However, ND’s success will hinge on BK’s able to adjust. When Crist was the quarterback, BK relied too heavily on the pass and that’s simply not how this team is built. ND could have won 9 or 10 games last year if BK would have gone to their strength – running the ball. It chews up the clock and gives the defense more rest, which makes them better. ND’s offensive line is still built for moving forward, not backing up to pass block. ND is still a year or two away from coverting from a pro-set type of line to a run and shoot type of line. The reason they won their last 4 games was because BK was forced to adapt, becacuse of Rees’ experience, and they became a run first team.
by Domer Fan on Feb 23, 2011 12:05 PM EST reply actions
Domer Fan,
I agree that Kelly relied too much on the passing game and that running the ball more helps the team. But Notre Dame’s strength is most certainly not running the football, at least it hasn’t been for a long time.
The irony here as I see it is that the team did run the ball a little better after Crist went down, but overall, the offensive line was much better in pass protection than in run blocking all season long.
Whether or not Kelly adapts in the future (I think he will) is a good question. It will be interesting to see just how he does and how radical his offensive changes may be. Necessity kind of forced him to run the ball with Rees, but will he with a quarterback that is experienced and that he can trust??
It’s probably likely that he runs the ball a little bit more than he did at Cincinnati, but until there are 2 legit studs in the backfield, I don’t see him pounding the ball like Wisconsin any time soon.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 23, 2011 2:09 PM EST reply actions
Outstanding!!! I couldnt put that any better myself. All these people that want Rees to be the QB just dont get it. I too would like to see Crist be more accurate and hopefully he will be, but Hendrix is there to keep the pressure on him. Great work!!
by Scranton Dave on Feb 23, 2011 3:20 PM EST reply actions
Thanks Scranton Dave.
I try to keep it real around here.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 23, 2011 5:38 PM EST reply actions
Crist is an injury-prone loser. Golson is the man who should be given the keys to the bus against USF. He is head and shoulders above the rest. When he teams with Riddick as a runner, and he throws to Floyd and the others, we will have a killer spread offense.
by irishize on Feb 23, 2011 5:45 PM EST reply actions
At 5’11’’ and 170 lbs., Golson is “head and shoulders above the rest”.
Your choice of words could have been better.
by Whiskeyjack on Feb 23, 2011 5:56 PM EST reply actions
I wasn’t implying that his height is going to hold him back as a college QB.
I’m simply amused by the irony of your description of the shortest QB on our roster (by a good 4’’) as being “head and shoulders above the rest.”
by Whiskeyjack on Feb 23, 2011 6:16 PM EST reply actions
I like Golson for the future, but not as a true frosh. Let him RS and let Crist and Hendrix battle for the job.
by Scranton Dave on Feb 23, 2011 6:28 PM EST reply actions
This was great analysis of the QBs. While I agree Crist in the starting lineup is the best option – The intangible question is does he have the right mindset for a QB. He gets so jacked up vs Michigan that he goes blind in one eye – then go goes AWOL against Navy and just mails it in. Also getting injured mid-game throws the gameplan out the window for an entire game. Sure Crist has the Wow-factor but ND just needs a QB to deliver accurate throws to one of the best receiving corps and keep the defense in a good position
by joeyknucklehead on Feb 23, 2011 7:21 PM EST reply actions
Irishize,
Whoa, whoa, whoa…slow down a little bit. Golson hasn’t even attempted a pass in practice at the college level yet. Anything can happen, but let’s try to not put too much pressure on the kid. In due time he will light it up.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 23, 2011 9:20 PM EST reply actions
“Head and shoulders above the rest.”
That was pretty funny.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 23, 2011 9:28 PM EST reply actions
joey,
Fair assessment, but I think it’s pretty important in the college game to have a really good quarterback. Not so much in the pros…although even now the NFL is a QB-driven league, but in college quarterbacks have such a pivotal role.
The odds that Notre Dame becomes great again with a decent QB are pretty small. I know you might not have meant it that way, but in reality if the Irish are to become a great team they’ll probably need a top-flight QB with a lot of “wow” factor.
I’d also argue Crist doesn’t have a ton of “wow” factor. Maybe coming out of high school, but too much has changed since then. I think he still has a lot of potential but things are different now.
by Eric Murtaugh on Feb 23, 2011 9:33 PM EST reply actions
As Joey alluded, I am wondering whether some of the residual “bad taste” regarding Dayne Crist has to do with the fact that his last game (discounting Tulsa) was the Navy debacle, where his worst performance all season (2nd worst passer rating overall, but still a worse game than BC) coincided with an appalling performance by our defense… against the Midshipmen, who suddenly own us. Although Rees played far, far worse against USC, where our defense won the game in spite of him, that seems to get a bit swept under the rug because we a) won and b) more importantly, won at the Coliseum. I am not reinventing the wheel here, but what is most likely: a) Rees puts on 25 lbs, gains .3 seconds on his forty time, improves his ability to move around in the pocket, and develops superior arm strength; b) Golson puts on 25 lbs in 6 months and is a revelation as a freshman; c) Crist learns to put some touch on his short throws, improves his accuracy, and tames some of his nerves (no longer being a 1st time starter, having an improved defense and running game on which to lean)?
Just my two cents but scenario © seems like the best bet.
The missing piece there is Hendrix. I have no idea what to expect from him.
by Lee on Feb 24, 2011 12:08 PM EST reply actions
Well put, Lee. © is much more likely than (B), which in turn is much more likely than (A).
It amazes me how many people seem to think that arm strength and foot speed can be increased like one’s bench press. If Longo can figure that out, he’ll retire a very rich man.
by Whiskeyjack on Feb 24, 2011 12:41 PM EST reply actions
Ahhh, a logical discourse on the college football landscape for ND QBs. The logical and fact-based statements and assessments are to be applauded.
In short, I am glad to see that most everyone here agrees that (A) we, as fans, are grateful for Tommy Rees and his efforts, but also accept his physical limitations when compared to his counterparts, (B) don’t expect the need for a freshman to contribute at the QB position, © are intrigued by a highly regarded player in Hendrix, but are unsure of where to set the bar, and (D) are confident enough in modern sports medicine to believe that Dayne Crist can in fact fully recover from his second major knee injury and be in the middle of an intriguing position battle and utlimately will probably end up on top due to his skill set, size, mental toughness and willingness to embrace his shortcomings as a player and address them through practice and study.
Lee, I must agree that © is by far the most likely scenario.
by Jim Miesle on Feb 24, 2011 2:14 PM EST reply actions
Outstanding Lee! In my years of reading posts on NDNation with reader comments this is by far the best combination of both those things! Also, with all of the great things I have read about how much Crist has contributed off the field and how good a person he is, its hard not to root for him, and he does have the talent. I hope he reaches his potential!
by Scranton Dave on Feb 24, 2011 6:13 PM EST reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on One Foot Down
Related FanShots on One Foot Down
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SHOP THE ONE FOOT DOWN STORE
