Irish Fans: Probability Polls, Statistics and Expectations
"They say statistics are for losers, but losers are usually the ones thinking that. Statistics are great. Our whole game plan is based off statistics. Our management of the game is based off statistics. Our recruiting is based off statistics. Everything we do is analyzed. Is that the bottom line? No. You can't analyze the heart of Tim Tebow."
- Urban Meyer
Urban Meyer's Conundrum
You wonder if Urban had determined this preseason the probability that his Gators would lose three straight with an offense that he now feels needs to be "rebuilt". The Gators are a miserable ninth in total offense in the SEC, ninety-first in the country just ahead of LSU.
I doubt Meyer expected his team to barely be above .500 after seven games with a losing conference record. Neither did a lot of prognosticators. Preseason polls ranked Florida as a consensus #6 (link).
Meyer doesn't blame his analyses of opposing teams, player recruitment or his management of the game on his statistics. To his fans who expected his team in the SEC conference championship at least, he concludes "We're not very good. We need to get some guys healthy." Statistical analysis is to explain winning. Meyer verges on the Willinghamesque explanation, "We just need to execute better."
His success has bought himself a bit of leeway, but all coaches know they have to deal with disappointing their fanbase's expectations. The dreaded word - "underachieving" - begins to creep into stories whether the coach explains that the team's on field performance turns out to be "very poor" or they have injuries to star players, as Meyer did.
Has Meyer overlooked getting the right kind of guy to Florida? Can he instill heart in his team?
The Problem of Preseason Hype
In the preseason, fans are always optimistic, expect success and read preseason predictions. How many BCS teams' fans expect a .500 season or less? As the season progresses, we should become pragmatic. How does that dose of pragmatism help Mark Richt at Georgia? Bulldog fans remember College Football News' 2009 preseason proclamation that "Georgia is going to be really, really good, but this doesn’t appear to be a team ready to go on an unbeaten run." CFN's 2010 prediction to Georgia's fans was: "...they have the schedule and just enough talent to win the division to get to the SEC title game." CFN/Scout picked Georgia as #3 and Florida as #4 in their preseason poll. Ouch!
Fans with such high expectations become quite disappointed in such failures.
Do fans become more pragmatic or cling to their expectations and look to assign blame to the coach?
A Self-Examination
At just more than halfway through the season, we should take a look at ourselves through NDNation's excellent preseason Probability Poll that analyzes our expectations for wins for 2010.
The Results Are In: NDNation Probability Poll
Then there is the man who drowned crossing a stream with an average depth of six inches. ~W.I.E. Gates
Over 7,000 Irish fans in the poll expected this year's team to win 8.5 games on an average. The poll suggested that the Irish would not be underdogs in any game this year on an average.
For the remaining five games this season's schedule, we expected our team to be Heavy Favorites in the Tulsa and Army games, Solid Favorites in the Navy game this week, a Slight Favorite against Utah, and a Coin Toss against USC. Most of us underestimated Utah and would move that game up to a Coin Toss, especially considering that with a win against TCU they may come into South Bend contending for BCS rights to the national championship game.
In their first seven games, the Irish's four wins have come from each category - Western Michigan (Heavy Favorite); Purdue (Solid Favorite); BC (Slight Favorite); and Pittsburgh (Coin Toss). The Irish lost an OT game against current Big Ten leader, Michigan State (Coin Toss), a contender for the Pac-10 title, Stanford (Slight Favorite) and Michigan, currently sinking in the Big Ten (Slight Favorite), in which game our starting QB was out for a half.
Stanford, Utah, Michigan State and Michigan have been better than we expected, delighting their fanbases. Pittsburgh and BC have performed less than expected, disappointing their fans. College football, after all, is a zero sum game, especially considering many of these teams playing each other.
USC will be talented and tough, as always. Navy will be relentless, expects a victory and is a classic trap game on the road.
Mathematical Uncertainties x 22+
While the individual man is an insoluble puzzle, in the aggregate he becomes a mathematical certainty. You can, for example, never foretell what any one man will be up to, but you can say with precision what an average number will be up to. Individuals vary, but percentages remain constant. So says the statistician. ~Arthur Conan Doyle
Should the Irish get by the Midshipmen this weekend, I - like most fans - expect wins over Tulsa and Army, unless we pull a Florida or "underperform". (I cannot concede the other team could "outperform" if we are favored.) One win out of the two games against Utah and USC would leave the Irish with a 8-4 record. If only we could count the OT game against Michigan State as a half win, the Irish would have their 8.5 average wins we predicted.
While I am not a statistician (though I enjoy researching stats), the NDNation poll findings suggested that the probability of:
- 6 wins or less was 9.6%
- 7 wins was 15.3%
- 10 wins was 17.3%
- 11 wins or more was 8.1%
I conclude that there are 25% of responses on either side of 8-9 wins and also that a 7-5 season would disappoint 75% of fans' expectations (only those who predicted 7 wins or less would be accurate).
The Expectation Undertow
The interplay between preseason polling and the pragmatism of how the football season progresses with our expectations is fascinating. Disappointment drives coaching changes. Eighty per cent of FBS teams have changed coaches in a little more than five years despite spiraling salaries. "Coaching Hot Seat" has been an accepted term for years. Each coach fights to stay ahead of the expectation undertow.
We can all identify with Coach Kelly when he expects more from each individual player. Kelly has clearly been working at molding talented individuals to form a team identity focused on common goals.
Our expectations translate into expected wins. We may be driven by our hopes and the history of Notre Dame championships. We have been disappointed too frequently of late. While it's just hard for us to be patient and pragmatic, remember that you can't calculate the heart of a team - one of those many variables that make football so complex, so frustrating, at times satisfying and so difficult to quantify.
If I find a way, though, I won't tell Urban Meyer.
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Interesting thoughts. I concur with your points on expectations. I continue to be amazed by the rate at which schools fire coaches for their inability to bring home championships. We are after all talking about 120 teams all chasing one trophy. We’ll be fair and call it 25-30 teams in a given year if we want to be realistic.
This discussion really highlights what I continue to believe is the biggest problem in all of college football. In my opinion it isn’t the BCS. It is preseason polls. Granted it is fun to prognosticate in July and August when there is little else to discuss but the actual polls themselves cause problems all year long.
While the clamoring continues to be rid of the BCS and move to a playoff system I think a great interim improvement would be to ban any and all polling until after week 6. The initial BCS standings don’t come out until then so why let them be influenced by polls that are permanently tainted by preseason prognostications?
Not to mention the fact that preseason polls have a lot to do with many of the “hotseat” cases that you mentioned. These preseason polls are heavily influenced by the prior season, returning skill players (the trenches are often overlooked), perceived strength of schedule and in some cases just individuals trying to pick the next “surprise” team. See Ole Miss & Okie State in 2009.
The truth is that each year every program has a new team and you dont’ really know exactly how they will come together. As you mentioned the intangibles will come into play. So will the occasional freak injury, random home jobs and a whole host of other unpredictable variables like defenders randomly falling down and allowing an unlikely fake FG to be converted in OT!
It is fun to discuss in places like the ND Nation probability poll but it has an adverse affect on the season when it is part of the formula. OK I"ll get off of it. Thanks for getting me riled up!
What does everyone else think?
by whiskey on Oct 18, 2010 11:57 PM EDT reply actions
Thanks for the comments, whiskey.
I love the NDNation Probability Poll and miss Blue-Gray Sky’s Pick Six contest. Irish football fans are some of the most knowledgeable among all CF fans, IMO. I admit to be one of the most optimistic in my family when picking ND’s season record.
I’d do away with polls prior to the 7th week, too, but would also eliminate FCS games from counting towards BCS ranking. Human polls consciously or subconsciously do that. If we started rankings this week, wouldn’t you rank a 6-1 Wisconsin ahead of a 6-1 Ohio State?
There is always an element of bias in rankings. Wouldn’t you rank Missouri who blasted McNeese St (FCS) 50-6 over LSU who struggled to beat the same McNeese 32-10 and needed a miracle to beat Tennessee?
What I need is a bias quotient that mediates my Probability Poll entry of a 9-3 season with four Coin Toss games to a 7-5 with the Irish being underdogs in four games. Oddsmakers do a good job of helping with that.
I do my best with moderating my enthusiasm, frustration and expectations with patience and pragmatism. As you point out, there’s a lot of risk in the equations.
by Michael Collins on Oct 19, 2010 1:48 AM EDT reply actions
Georgia can still go to the SEC Championship game. They are only one game out in the east. Heck that means they can still go to a BCS game.
by keith on Oct 19, 2010 10:11 AM EDT reply actions
That’s the beauty of the SEC East this year. One week the coach is about to get canned and the next week his team is still in contention with the possibility of a BCS game. Georgia could even win out in the SEC, lose to Tech, win the title and make the BCS with 5 losses.
by Michael Collins on Oct 19, 2010 10:31 AM EDT reply actions
A BCS berth with 5 losses…wow that would make for some hot debate about the worthiness of the BCS.
by borromini on Oct 19, 2010 12:17 PM EDT reply actions
Georgia in that 5 loss scenario means Florida with 4 losses, at least. (Nice call, Scout.) Also, Kentucky would have 4 losses (losing to Georgia this week) and the Dogs would knock Auburn out of the undefeated before the Alabama game.
Thanks for stopping by, FB.
by Michael Collins on Oct 19, 2010 12:39 PM EDT reply actions
great thoughts all-around, but the best part was the urban meyer quote at the beginning. HA!
for your general amusement http://firecoachmeyer.com/
obviously, i think whoever made this website is ridiculous and probably just trying to make some money, but it supports the point of the whole post – expectations are bloated and have a huge impact on the way programs are run.
p.s. never really had a problem with meyer until the LSU game – i think it was eric who brought that up a couple of weeks ago.
by Saint on Oct 19, 2010 4:29 PM EDT reply actions
Saint,
Glad you liked the quote. Thanks for the website on meyer. I have also found websites on firing Mark Richt, firing Brian Kelly, and firing Lane Kiffin. I stopped there. I think their agents are creating them. Oh, the buyout incomes and the new openings looking for saviors.
Anyone notice the Big East is 2-11 against BCS foes? ACC is almost as bad, 3-10, with all three wins against Big East teams. SEC is 8-4, but are 6-1 against the weak Big East and ACC. Otherwise, they are 2-3. Big 12 is also 8-4 against BCS teams. Big 10 is 7-5 against BCS teams. Pac-10 is 10-4 against BCS teams.
by Michael Collins on Oct 20, 2010 1:05 AM EDT reply actions
Michael those are interesting stats on the conferences. Do me a favor and update those right before we pick the bowl games!
by whiskey on Oct 20, 2010 1:26 AM EDT reply actions
Sure, whiskey. I doubt they will change much now that we are into conference play. But it did not help me with the last bowl season, since so few SEC teams play any difficult BCS teams. Only Oregon (Tenn loss) has been a tough team an SEC team has faced the year. The Vols hung with the Ducks for a half.
Penn St (Ala-W), Tex A&M (Ark- W by 7 pt win), Colo (Ga-L), NW (Vandy-L) were the others.
After Arkansas’s 7 pt win over A&M, Missouri overwhelmed the Aggies by 21 the next week.
Eliminating the wins over SEC teams, Colo, Penn St, Tex A&M and NW are 2-8 against BCS teams.
by Michael Collins on Oct 20, 2010 1:36 PM EDT reply actions

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